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Topic: Future of Sampling?

  1. #1

    Future of Sampling?

    Eric Lindemann, creator of Synful Orchestra posted this in the Steinberg forums. I should love to know the opinion of others.


    "I want to be able to play natural instrument sounds from a MIDI keyboard (or other controller or sequencer) using standard controls (Volume, Mod, Pitch-Wheel, Velocity) in a convincing expressive manner. I want this to be a musical experience without a lot of editing, pushing of special buttons, program changes, pushing special keys, applying special phrasing tools, etc (programming as we call it). When I play legato I want it to sound legato as it would on the instrument I’m simulating When I play detached I want it to sound detached.
    There are several reasons this is not possible with samplers (no matter what the library).
    1) The samplers and libraries do not have the variety of note articulations and especially note transitions reflected in real instruments. (I don’t think making such a library would be practical but I’ll discuss that another time).
    2) The samplers and libraries are not able to sustain notes for an indefinite length of time, looping does not sound convincing.
    3) One cannot change the character of a note in a natural and convincing way while the note is being sustained.
    4) There is not a continuum of timbre from loud to soft as in a real instrument – we have 2-4 “velocity levels” – but what happens when the loudness changes during sustain?
    5) The samplers and libraries do not have convincing control over vibrato so controlling vibrato onset in an expressive manner is unconvincing.
    6) The samplers and libraries have no natural strategy for adjusting articulation according to the players phrasing. Your obliged to use a bunch of supplementary meta commands to select between a very limited set of articulation alternatives (legato and non-legato) and dynamics."

    I think this is a very clear statement of the issues - not sure that I agree with the idea of inputing everything through keyboard though - If I want synth percussion then surely the best way is to thump something, if I want synth winds then blow something.

    What are your views?

    Core i7 920, Win 7 RC 64, Cubase 5 64, Omnisphere, Trilogy, RMX, EWQLSO Plat EW Choirs, GPO, Stradivari, Gofrilla, Absynth 4, Halion 3, Kontakt3, BFD2, VSL Strings, JBridge running all 32 bit apps well.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Styxx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    West Seneca, NY

    Re: Future of Sampling?

    Striving for that human element using machines and processors what have you. I suppose anything is possible. I agree for my means having a way to play a controller and it capture your expressiveness as you perform would be advantageous. However, I myself can't fathom how anyone could program a notational and or sequential software to recognize the billions of expressiveness a real player can have in performance? I mean, can you imagine the parameters this would involve? It sounds as if he is striving for the ultimate program that can reproduce the human element of performance and I guess I just don't see how it could be done. I'm growing more confused with this whole computer based compositional software as it is. Call me stupid but even Data when given the chip of human emotion had problems. Maybe I am just not understanding fully what he is after. Or, maybe he's after something just not possible completely.
    As for sample librarys, to me sampling is still in an infant stage yet growing in leaps and bounds. Besides, these libs and synths were ment to be tools for the composer to realize his or her work before presenting to the live orchestra.

    I had to come back and add to this after rereading and then listening to mine and DPDAN's demo of Somewhere Over The Rainbow. http://www.twinzzapstudio21.com/Demo...RainbowMix.mp3
    I have to tell you that I play ALL of the instruments I mixed in with my controller and NEVER edited a thing not even modulation! The flute solo IS as I played it in period. The only thing I did was follow Judy Garlands phrasing as best as possible while playing it in. NO EDITS WHAT SO EVER! Now, I can't say what DPDAN did as far as his instrumentation but after listening to it, damn if it doesn't sound emotionally human as can be possible and it is all GPO!
    Whew - Sample Libraries will be here for a long time and thus evolving as well. The best I can say is the use of all these tools in ones composition can only be advantageous to the end result.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Isle of Wight, England

    Re: Future of Sampling?

    Great Flute performance!

    I've been using GPO for about 2 weeks now and I'm already getting to grips will playing the 'expressive instruments' live.

    I've even patched my expression pedal to modulation then I can use my Mod wheel to vibrato speed - with aftertouch for vibrato depth. With my left foot controlling legato there such are lots of things to co-ordinate!

    BUT this is still way easier than learning to play a real flute (and a clarinet, and an oboe, and a bassoon .... etc.). The number of parameters a real flutists is jugling while playing is still probably way more. I don't see how an expressive wind (or string or brass) solo can be controlled without mastering all these controllers or by heavy editing afterwards.

    In other words - there aren't any short cuts to musical expression!

    On the issue of samples verses virtual instruments, I think the convergence of these 2 technologies is the way forward.
    As in music - so in life!

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