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Topic: Difference 'tween sequencer & notation sftwr?

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  1. #1

    Question Difference 'tween sequencer & notation sftwr?

    And as long as I'm showing my igorance -
    1)how do you input music into a sequencer.
    2) If it's via a keyboard, how proficient do you have to be on a keyboard.
    I use Sibelius - hence the questions.

  2. #2
    Senior Member squoze's Avatar
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    Re: Difference 'tween sequencer & notation sftwr?

    Most sequencer programs will have a piano roll view where you can click in notes. This is in addition to being able to record directly real time from a midi keyboard. Some also have a staff view (notation) where you can input notes.
    I guess if you weren't real proficient on keyboard, you could record at a slow speed. Otherwise, use the piano roll.

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    Senior Member rwayland's Avatar
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    Re: Difference 'tween sequencer & notation sftwr?

    Quote Originally Posted by bnlsrv
    And as long as I'm showing my igorance -
    1)how do you input music into a sequencer.
    2) If it's via a keyboard, how proficient do you have to be on a keyboard.
    I use Sibelius - hence the questions.
    1. Quite similar to Sibelius.

    2. Via keyboard, also similar to Sibelius, but I think easier, at least with those that I have tried. Proficiency is helpful, but not essential. You can input via step time, using the keyboard, and if you have some proficiency, you can zap the keys the same as if you were playing, but in slow motion. Or don't worry about that part, just edit velocity later. You can enter chords at one swat. If you are using several melody lines, you can enter one, go back and enter the others in turn. It is easier for me to import a midi file into Sibelius than to import Sibelius into a midi file. I find GPO works easier with Sonar than Sibelius, but that could be a matter of personal style.

    Richard

  4. #4

    Re: Difference 'tween sequencer & notation sftwr?

    Quote Originally Posted by bnlsrv
    And as long as I'm showing my igorance -
    1)how do you input music into a sequencer.
    2) If it's via a keyboard, how proficient do you have to be on a keyboard.
    I use Sibelius - hence the questions.
    I won't go into any long details about how to build a watch.....
    I'm not familiar with Sibelius so forgive my ignorance
    This picture shows the notes of the harp that I entered into the midi sequencer of Digital Performer (DP) from a keyboard



    This picture shows the audio mixer in DP



    I started using DP and midi back in April of 2004 when I purchased GPO. I have no music training, and can not play a piano worth a crap, so this will give you an idea of what can be done in a reasonably short time. This version of Ave Maria is not The New York Philharmonic, or even a great harp/cello duo, but it's me, DP and GPO, and for what it's worth, it was alot of fun making. The notes can be inserted with a keyboard or mouse individually, or in my case, I play the chords and then I go back and use the mouse to move each note exactly where it needs to be. For instance, you can move the note or chord earlier, later, make it longer or shorter, softer or louder, or change the note or chord altogether with regard to pitch. Anything is possible in a DAW such as Digital Performer by MOTU or many other great DAW software programs such as Sonar, Nuendo, Pro Tools, just to name a few. Notation is a program that displays the music in the form of a sheet of music where you enter the notes or chords in the same ways as you can with a sequencer, but the editing capabilities of midi and audio are much less elaborate. Notation programs are wonderful in their own ways just as a DAW is, they are not in competition with each other but separate programs altogether. Digital Performer allows many different intuitive ways to view and edit music and audio, in fact like many other DAW programs it can also show the midi chords in a notation window just like a notation program, like this...



    This pic shows the audio in a window where you can cut, copy, paste, devide, move etc.



    I hope this little show makes understanding the basic differences between notation software and sequencing/audio software a little more clear.

    By the way, does anyone have the time?
    DPDan

  5. #5
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    Re: Difference 'tween sequencer & notation sftwr?

    Thanks Dan, a picture is worth a thousand words. But four pictures.....

    bnlsv - to input notes in a sequencer you can use a keyboard and play it in. Or you can draw/mouse it in like you do in Siblius. Some sequencers have notation built in so you can input in a similar manner. Some use piano roles so you can also mouse it in. I have found that playing it in live with a keyboard saves the most time and produces the most realistic results.

    For the second question, Richard and Dan provided excellent answers.

    Gary Garritan

  6. #6

    Re: Difference 'tween sequencer & notation sftwr?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garritan
    Thanks Dan, a picture is worth a thousand words. But four pictures.....

    bnlsv - to input notes in a sequencer you can use a keyboard and play it in. Or you can draw/mouse it in like you do in Siblius. Some sequencers have notation built in so you can input in a similar manner. Some use piano roles so you can also mouse it in. I have found that playing it in live with a keyboard saves the most time and produces the most realistic results.

    For the second question, Richard and Dan provided excellent answers.

    Gary Garritan
    Thanks to all of you! I think I'm going to get a keyboard. I just spent an hour putting in notes with Sibelius. Harp / Flute - got 2 mearsures done. Yikes!
    I'll do a search on keyboard recommendations within the forum.

  7. #7

    Re: Difference 'tween sequencer & notation sftwr?

    If you're a keyboard player, it'll be much easier to play and record your midi. As a guitarist with only minimal keyboard chops, I compose via notation, and it's a much slower process. Nonetheless, I'm grateful for the ability to create music without having to become proficient on the keyboard (well, other than PC keyboard, I guess ). Getting some piano chops is on my list of things I want to do, but there's never quite enough hours in the day.

    By the way, I've heard that both Finale and Sibilieus are excellent notation programs and if I understand correctly, that's their strength rather than trying to be sequencers too. However, though I can't say much at the moment, keep your eye on Overture, the notation software that ships for free with GPO. There's a new version in the works, and all I can officially say is that it's Extremely Cool.
    Christopher Duncan
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Author of
    Unite the Tribes and The Career Programmer
    www.PracticalUSA.com


  8. #8

    Smile Re: Difference 'tween sequencer & notation sftwr?

    bnlsrv,
    DP Dan has given a great answer, here is another look for what it is worth...

    Notation programs are terrific for getting music `on the sheet'. Sequencers are superior for making music. I'll explain...

    Notation progams let you create a great score quickly, however their MIDI editing capabilities (as DPDan so well expained) are limited. Sequencers allow powerful MIDI editing and audio processing (again, like DPDan explained).

    So...
    I use Sibelius to create a score. I then take the score and export the MIDI to Cubase SX or Overture, depending on other factors. This gives me the basic MIDI to start working from and I can then begin to massage the MIDI to create a more musical sounding work.

    I have tried inputting music into Cubase and then exporting the MIDI to Sibelius (and Finale, and Overture) and have found that notation software takes the notes to literally and will create a score with many notes incorrect. For instance, an eighth note might display as a sixteenth note with a sixteenth rest. You then have to fix all of these problems and it can take a huge amount of time to do so, even if you have tools like quantise to help out.

    So, the short answer is: going from notation software to sequencer software will yield a faster final production time than the opposite.


    P.S.
    By the way, if it took you 2 hours to get 2 measures you are doing something very wrong. This could be the case because you have no musical background, so each note is a `hunt & peck' type of chore. If this is true, a keyboard will help you hunt & peck faster. My recommendation would be to get enough theory under your belt to know what staves, notes, rests, etc. are. It will be a tremendous help down the road.

    I do not think I am the fastest Sibelius person, however I have notated 3 SATB + piano choir pieces (about 23 pages worth) in just over 3 hours. The numeric keypad input is *fast* you just have to get used to it. For me, ramp time to fast input was about 2 hours. I do not do any extra notation (slurs, ties, dynamics) until all the notes are in, it works fastest for me.
    We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams …
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  9. #9
    Senior Member rwayland's Avatar
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    Re: Difference 'tween sequencer & notation sftwr?

    [QUOTE=LFO]bnlsrv,


    I

    So, the short answer is: going from notation software to sequencer software will yield a faster final production time than the opposite.
    >

    Well, that may be a matter of preference. If I remember to accurately quantize midi before importing to Sibelius, and choose the right options when importing, I can often get a near perfect score on the import.

    Richard

  10. #10
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    Re: Difference 'tween sequencer & notation sftwr?

    I'm glad somebody brought this up...saved me from letting everyone know I'm sequencer ignorant. I do however work from notation into GPO - easiest for me.

    Thanks gang.....my reputation is still safe.

    "P"
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    Music is moral law. It gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, a charm to sadness and a gaiety and life to everything. It is the essence of order and leads to all that is good, true and beautiful. -- Plato


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