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Topic: Black Grand and ppp velocity problem

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  1. #1

    Exclamation Black Grand and ppp velocity problem

    When playing Black Grand with GS3 it seems I can't get the really soft ppp when pressing very gently on a key. I have tried Malmsjö from ArtVista in GS3 and that one performed it better just as well as Steinberg's The Grand (in Cubase).

    Is there no possibility to adjust the velocity as is possible with The Grand, for example? I really need the softest pianissimos and what I understand, Black Grand, already has these sampled!

    I'm using an old Yamaha Clavinova CLP-250. How to adjust the velocity in that one, I don't know, if it's possible.

    Thanks for any help...

  2. #2

    Re: Black Grand and ppp velocity problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Fogwall
    When playing Black Grand with GS3 it seems I can't get the really soft ppp when pressing very gently on a key. I have tried Malmsjö from ArtVista in GS3 and that one performed it better just as well as Steinberg's The Grand (in Cubase).

    Is there no possibility to adjust the velocity as is possible with The Grand, for example? I really need the softest pianissimos and what I understand, Black Grand, already has these sampled!

    I'm using an old Yamaha Clavinova CLP-250. How to adjust the velocity in that one, I don't know, if it's possible.

    Thanks for any help...
    If you use the standard patch in BG (Patch 1), the lowest velocitylayer should trigg on velocity values between 1-10, you should be able to trigger that with your midi keyboard, but I'm not familiar with how you adjust the velocity curve on the clavinova.
    If you mean that you want more difference in amplitude between ppp and fff that's another thing. Then you have to open the file in the Instrument Editor and change the velocity curve values.
    Worra
    SampleTekk

    Arf, arf, arf...

  3. #3

    Re: Black Grand and ppp velocity problem

    [em]you should be able to trigger that with your midi keyboard[/em]

    No, it seems I can't do that. Checked the manual and no information. Perhaps the same problem with all Clavinovas..?

    [em]open the file in the Instrument Editor and change the velocity curve values[/em]

    How do I do that?

  4. #4

    Re: Black Grand and ppp velocity problem

    You can change the velocity response with your CLP.

    Go to "Other setting"/ Touch response. You can choose light, medium, heavy and fixed.
    "Heavy" would be the best to play pianissimo. All velocities are possible with heavy.
    (I have no CLP)

    To ajust velocity with your sequencer you can use the program velomaster from www. musiclab.com
    There is a free demo. (But some problems with cubase-its made for cakewalk)



    @worra

    Could you please say how to change the velocity curves in GS editor. Its a very important function for piano playing.
    A little newcomer-tutorial would be fine.... I think the strange GS-Editor is a terra incognita for many new users.

  5. #5

    Re: Black Grand and ppp velocity problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Grubner
    You can change the velocity response with your CLP.
    Go to "Other setting"/ Touch response. You can choose light, medium, heavy and fixed.
    Where do I find these settings? I checked the manual (again) and no such settings.

  6. #6
    hv
    Guest

    Re: Black Grand and ppp velocity problem

    Out of curiousity I just took a peek at the CLP-250 online manual and it doesn't look like that keyboard has selectable velocity curves. However, page 8 of the manual says it has "8-note polyphony and touch response" with the amount of variation depending on the selected voice... suggesting that if you choose between the 3 different internal sounds while playing giga through midi-outs you might get different velocity response curves.

    Howard

  7. #7

    Re: Black Grand and ppp velocity problem

    From what I can gather, many keyboards have a problem registering the lowest velocities--they may play them, but you can't hear them. Turning up the volume is of course one option, but then everything gets loud. My solution has been one that I don't like: I manually edit the layers by just raising the velocity range of the softest samples, so that what may have been intended as a sample that would play from 1-10, for example, plays at 1-25. Not a good solution, since it means I have to press the key harder than on a real piano to hear the softer sound, but it can work if combined with tweaking the velocity sensitivity and velocity curve of the keyboard\sampler\sequencer. With the demo of the Old Lady, I've found this method gives me good results.

    Again, I suspect, and only suspect, that the real problem is that the keyboards just weren't (aren't?) manufactured to play soft samples accurately---the expectation was\is that one wants fairly loud sounds, often in a band context, so the velocity\juice\amplitude ratio may have a leak on the low end. Or maybe the keyboards I've played just have this problem--mainly Yamahas like my S-80, in which all the samples were recorded in the f-fff range, as though the notion of playing soft sounds was unheard of.

    Do other keyboards do a better job of sounding soft layers?

  8. #8

    Wink Re: Black Grand and ppp velocity problem

    Perhaps something like that?

    Good for Fatar ec.... pianissimo




    ###

    Aua! -mea culpa..I checked the manual of a CLP-150 - CLP-250 is a little "Oldtimer"..from 1991

  9. #9

    Smile Re: Black Grand and ppp velocity problem

    This is extem-pianissimo:


  10. #10

    Re: Black Grand and ppp velocity problem

    Aua! -mea culpa..I checked the manual of a CLP-150 - CLP-250 is a little "Oldtimer"..from 1991
    Actually, it's from 1989. I must point out that this keyboard has a great touch response with Black Grand, except then for the lower velocities. I just wish I could do something about that problem and still keeping this oldie.

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