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Topic: Lets Stand Together!!!!

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  1. #1
    Moderator/Developer Brian2112's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Lets Stand Together!!!!

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    ***Advertisments***
    A Poem for You. . .


    The election is over
    The results are known
    The will of the people
    Has clearly been shown.



    Let's all get together
    And show by our deeds
    That we will give him
    All the help that he needs.



    Let's forget our differences
    Let bitterness pass
    I'll hug your elephant
    And you can . . . .

    (kiss my a s s) People seem to be missing this...lol


    ...2112
    Last edited by Brian2112; 11-10-2004 at 12:54 PM. Reason: People not getting joke!
    "So what if some parts of life are a crap shoot? Get out there and shoot the crap." -- Neil Peart
    Hint:1.6180339887498948482 Φ

  2. #2

    Re: Lets Stand Together!!!!

    NO WAY! Bush cheated and we want the truth. RISE UP!!!@!!

  3. #3
    Moderator/Developer Brian2112's Avatar
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    Re: Lets Stand Together!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Phoenix
    NO WAY! Bush cheated and we want the truth. RISE UP!!!@!!
    I'll last about 3 seconds in this Red State.
    Nick, fight back with some more funny patch names for upcomming libraries. That always cheers me up (and the rest of us too)>i.e. "Bush is a Fairy"

    ...2112
    "So what if some parts of life are a crap shoot? Get out there and shoot the crap." -- Neil Peart
    Hint:1.6180339887498948482 Φ

  4. #4

    Re: Lets Stand Together!!!!

    Neil Peart's an objectivist. Ya know, Ayn Rand's capitalism and all. If he were disguised and posted his views on this forum, you'd be calling him the same things you call the rest of us right-wingers. But, I can't help myself:

    There is unrest in the forest,
    There is trouble with the trees,
    For the maples want more sunlight
    And the oaks ignore their pleas.

    The trouble with the maples,
    (And they're quite convinced they're right)
    They say the oaks are just too lofty
    And they grab up all the light.
    But the oaks can't help their feelings
    If they like the way they're made.
    And they wonder why the maples
    Can't be happy in their shade?

    There is trouble in the Forest
    And the creatures all have fled
    As the Maples scream 'Oppression!'
    And the Oaks, just shake their heads

    So the maples formed a union
    And demanded equal rights.
    'These oaks are just too greedy;
    We will make them give us light.'
    Now there's no more oak oppression,
    For they passed a noble law,
    And the trees are all kept equal
    By hatchet,
    Ax,
    And saw.
    Michael Peter

    If music be the food of love...
    play on

    William Shakespeare

    homepage

  5. #5
    Moderator/Developer Brian2112's Avatar
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    Re: Lets Stand Together!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by His Frogness
    Neil Peart's an objectivist. Ya know, Ayn Rand's capitalism and all. If he were disguised and posted his views on this forum, you'd be calling him the same things you call the rest of us right-wingers. But, I can't help myself:
    Neil Peart is pro-capitalist and anti-communist. So am I. So are Liberals. It’s just another case of the right-wing believing their own propaganda.



    “…No his mind is not for rent
    To any god or government
    Always hopeful, yet discontent
    He knows changes aren't permanent
    But change is”

    Or more to the point...

    "Witch Hunt"
    The night is black
    Without a moon
    The air is thick and still
    The vigilantes gather on
    The lonely torch lit hill

    Features distorted in the flickering light
    The faces are twisted and grotesque
    Silent and stern in the sweltering night
    The mob moves like demons possessed
    Quiet in conscience, calm in their right
    Confident their ways are best

    The righteous rise
    With burning eyes
    Of hatred and ill-will
    Madmen fed on fear and lies
    To beat and burn and kill

    They say there are strangers who threaten us
    In our immigrants and infidels
    They say there is strangeness too dangerous
    In our theaters and bookstore shelves
    That those who know what's best for us
    Must rise and save us from ourselves


    Quick to judge
    Quick to anger
    Slow to understand
    Ignorance and prejudice
    And fear walk hand in hand...

    ...2112
    "So what if some parts of life are a crap shoot? Get out there and shoot the crap." -- Neil Peart
    Hint:1.6180339887498948482 Φ

  6. #6

    Re: Lets Stand Together!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian2112
    Neil Peart is pro-capitalist and anti-communist. So am I. So are Liberals. It’s just another case of the right-wing believing their own propaganda.
    Brian, I'm impressed. An amuteur Rush fan would've just thrown up Closer to the Heart and been done with it, but you had the extra creativivity to use Witch Hunt. The fact remains that 2112 is a tribute to Ayn Rand's novella Anthem, as was the song on Fly By Night. You should read some Ayn Rand, then maybe you'd know what Peart was talking about in much of his lyrics.

    You can quote all the lyrics you want. They come from a man who despises the liberal Kerry idealogy:

    Live for yourself -- there's no one else
    More worth living for
    Begging hands and bleeding hearts will only cry out for more

    Well, I know they've always told you
    Selfishness was wrong
    Yet it was for me, not you, I came to write this song

    This was a small tribute to Ayn Rand's novella Anthem, a book about telling all you whining liberals to screw off. 2112 was an even greater tribute to this novella, retelling it in their own way.

    Peart continued to express his Objectivist philosophy throught their entire career:

    You don't get something for nothing
    You can't have freedom for free
    You won't get wise
    With the sleep still in your eyes
    No matter what your dreams might be

    What you own is YOUR OWN kingdom
    What you do is YOUR OWN glory
    What you love is YOUR OWN power
    What you live is YOUR OWN story

    ---------------------------------------

    The hypocrites are slandering
    The sacred halls of Truth
    Ancient nobles showering
    Their bitterness on youth
    Can't we find the minds that made us strong?
    Can't we learn to feel what's right
    And what's wrong?
    What's wrong?
    ....

    Can't we raise our eyes and make a start?
    Can't we find the minds to lead us
    Closer to the Heart?

    When he mentions closer to the heart, just as in the song with that title...he's not talking about liberalism, caring for your brothers, or anything like that. His idea of Closer to the Heart is being honest with yourself about who and what you are. Selfish. Alive in this world for your own happiness. We shouldn't be ashamed of it. If we can be honest about our real goals and intentions, to better our own lives and be proud of it, we are living closer to the heart.




    You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
    If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
    You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill;
    I will choose a path that's clear
    I will choose freewill.

    "His mind is not for rent to any god or government"--- Exactly. You are not a tool of society to do their bidding...i,e liberalism.

    Peart is a free-market capitalist man. He's an objectivist. That's the opposite of liberalism. He probably doesn't like Bush for the same reasons I don't, but I guarantee you that he would tell you to take you liberalism and shove it.

    ....of course, he'd do it with a beautiful precision.


    Wheels can take you around
    Wheels can cut you down
    We can go from boom to bust
    From dreams to a bowl of dust
    We can fall from rockets' red glare
    Down to "Brother can you spare..."
    Michael Peter

    If music be the food of love...
    play on

    William Shakespeare

    homepage

  7. #7

    Re: Lets Stand Together!!!!

    Here's some more

    Cinderella Man

    In the betrayal of his love he awakened
    To face a world of cold reality
    And a look in the eyes of the hungry
    Awakened him to what he could do

    He held up his riches
    To challenge the hungry
    Purposeful motion
    For one so insane
    They tried to fight him
    Just couldn't beat him
    This manic depressive
    Who walks in the rain


    Notice that when the eyes of the hungry awaken him to what he could do, he doesn't use his riches to feed the hungry. He holds up his riches (proudly) and challenges the hungry. He CHALLENGES the hungry, to achieve the things he has.

    Beneath, Between and Behind

    Ten score years ago, defeat the kingly foe
    A wondrous dream came into being
    Tame the trackless waste, no virgin land left chaste
    All shining eyes, but never seeing

    Beneath the noble bird (the eagle)
    Between the proudest words (the constitution)
    Behind the beauty, cracks appear (beauty being the ideals of individual freedom and cracks being socialism)
    Once with heads held high
    They sang out to the sky
    Why do their shadows bow in fear? (shadows being our great founding fathers' posterity)
    Michael Peter

    If music be the food of love...
    play on

    William Shakespeare

    homepage

  8. #8

    Re: Lets Stand Together!!!!

    Brian, I liked that first poem! Very good, and it's good of you to be the patriot you are. Thanks for that.

    Frogness, great citations! I don't diefy Rand like many Objectivists do, but I DEFINITELY recommend Rand's works to anyone. Especially her fictional works. Atlas Shrugged is a tough read, but well worth it. I can't imagine anyone staying a (modern) liberal if they've read Atlas Shrugged. It's just too clear a presentation of how things really work.

    And you're right, Frogness, no Objectivist would dare agree with (modern) liberalism. I say modern because classical liberalism is the liberalism of laissez-faire, to which I subscribe.

    Glad to hear there are others on this forum who are familiar in Rand's philosophy (I know Glenn is). And even more glad to see your excelent analysis applied to these Rush lyrics.

  9. #9
    Moderator/Developer Brian2112's Avatar
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    Re: Lets Stand Together!!!!

    Hi Froggy!

    Well, I can see that you are well versed in your Rush lyrics. This proves to me that:

    1) You are a man of refinement and class
    2) You are intelligent
    3) You have great taste in music and lyrics
    4) You are most likely a great musician.


    So, meet your new bud 2112!
    Now, to business.

    Froggy, you are quite doomed. Yes I have read Ayn Rand: Anthem, The Fountainhead (my fave), and yes Brady, Atlas Shrugged. I also am an Orwell fan. So your implication is that having liberal values is not consistent with the lyrics of Mr. Peart (Whom I clearly hold in the highest regard.)???? Fair enough. I will fire up Word so that I can demolish this argument point by point. I have always sought an opportunity to dispel the myth that my favorite CANADIAN is a Republican right winger. (Libertarian is a little different). I will get back to you as soon as possible my worthy opponent.



    P.S. Thanks for the kind words Brady. You know that’s how I feel, but I am afraid that in this case, you missed the joke and I didn't write it. (see edit of original post.)



    …2112
    "So what if some parts of life are a crap shoot? Get out there and shoot the crap." -- Neil Peart
    Hint:1.6180339887498948482 Φ

  10. #10

    Re: Lets Stand Together!!!!

    Before you embark upon this, Brian, let us first define our terms.

    What is "liberalism"? I assume we are speaking of modern liberalism, not classical liberalism. Here's my shot at a definition, but let's all participate in agreeing on a definition before we proceed:

    The view that sometimes government must necessarily see to the needs of the disadvantaged, if sometimes at the expense of the advantaged (wealthy).

    Can we agree on that?

    Now as for Capitalism:
    (From the capitalism.org FAQ) Capitalism is a social system based on the recognition of individual rights, including property rights, in which all property is privately owned. Under capitalism the state is separated from economics (production and trade), just like the state is separated from religion. Capitalism is the system of of laissez faire.

    We may even want to add to this the concept of the pursuit of self-interest.

    Now if we can agree on both of these definitions, we can already see a clear conflict. But I'll leave that for later.

    This is going to be fun!

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