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Topic: GOS Instrument Pitch Maps

  1. #1

    GOS Instrument Pitch Maps

    As far as I know, pitch information is not available anywhere for the GOS library: which notes in which velocity layers are flat, in-tune, sharp, or fluctuating widely.

    If anyone else has made similar observations on other instruments, would love to see them, too!

    Having spent many hours doing it myself, here are some preliminary results for 'celli. The lowest C on the cello called C3 here. Only the notes that remain or go out of tune more than 5 cents are listed; and I only checked up to about G5:

    GOS Cellos Sus V (4 velocity layers: pp, mp, mf, ff)

    C#3 ff 5c sharp

    D3 ff 2 sinking to 6c flat

    F3 ff 5c sharp, fluctuating

    F#3 ff 8c flat

    G3 ff 8c sharp rising then in tune

    Ab3 ff 8c sharp lowering

    Eb4 mf rising to 10c sharp

    F#4 mf 6c flat
    F#4 ff 7c flat

    G4 mf 8c sharp
    G4 ff 12c sharp lowering

    A4 ff 14c sharp fluctuating

    Bb4 mf 8c flat
    Bb4 ff 7c flat

    B4 pp 10c sharp
    B4 mf 10c sharp

    C#5 mf 8c sharp down to 8c flat
    C#5 ff 12c sharp

    F5 mf 6c sharp

    G5 ff 6c flat


    GOS Cellos SusRich LEG (4 velocity layers: pp mp mf ff)

    C3 mp 8c flat rising to 6c sharp
    C3 ff 6c sharp

    C#3 mp 6c sharp

    D3 mf 10c sharp
    D3 ff 12c sharp

    Eb3 mp fluctuating up to 8c sharp down to 10c flat
    Eb3 ff 7c sharp lowering

    E3 mp 15c flat rising, lowering
    E3 mf 10c flat rising
    E3 ff 12c sharp

    F3 mf 12c flat rising
    F3 ff 8c sharp rising then lowering

    F#3 ff 6c flat rising to 10c sharp then tuning

    G3 ff 7c sharp fluctuating

    Bb3 mp 9c flat
    Bb3 mf 8c sharp lowering to 10c flat

    B3 mf 8c sharp rising

    C4 mp in tune rising to 10c sharp
    C4 mf in tune lowering to 10c flat

    Eb4 mp 10c sharp to 2c flat
    Eb4 ff 7c sharp tuning

    F#4 mf 10c sharp
    F#4 ff 8c sharp tuning then rising 10c sharp

    G4 mf 8c sharp rising to 20c sharp (!)
    G4 ff 8c sharp tuning

    Ab4 mp 4c sharp rising to 10c

    A4 mp 6c flat rising to 10c sharp

    Bb4 mp 6c flat tuning
    Bb4 ff 8c flat

    C#5 ff 10c sharp

    D5 ff tuned lowering to 20c flat

    Eb5 mf 10c flat
    Eb5 ff 6c sharp

    E5 ff 10c sharp

    G5 mp 10c flat
    G5 mf 9c flat
    G5 ff 3c flat fluctuating widely

    Ab5 mp 10c flat

    Bb5 mf 7c flat
    Bb5 ff 6c sharp lowering to 5c flat

    I have more, if there is interest, all done by listening and watching a tuner reading, so they are approximations -- but correcting for these makes an instrument tune much better to other instruments.


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Chandler, Arizona

    Re: GOS Instrument Pitch Maps

    GOS was tuned and tuned and tuned and retuned multiple times through the updates. Unfortunately, Giga 2.5 (and earlier) had the notorious unity sample bug which had a tendency to screw up tuning. I know that Tom lost quite a few hairs because of this issue!!

  3. #3

    Re: GOS Instrument Pitch Maps


    Which software are you using to check the tuning?


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Orcas Island

    Re: GOS Instrument Pitch Maps


    Something is strange here. The GOS library has been on the market for over three years and the instruments were meticulously tuned and tested. Some of the early beta versions needed tuning but the released versions did not have the problems you report (I trust you have a recent version).

    We wil double check again to make sure. For some reason, it seems the tuning values in Giga may have been lost when you did your testing. When we did the tuning, it was done at the sample level in Giga 2+. The tuning was not a destructive edit but done within the Giga programming. If you converted these programs to wav or used them in another program, the tuning values may have been lost or compromised. When other software samplers came on the market they did not always convert the tuning values in Giga. If you are testinging from Giga 3 then I hope GS3 reads the tuning values from the previous version. We'll check into this.

    Gary Garritan

  5. #5

    Re: GOS Instrument Pitch Maps


    I'm curious, which sampler are you using with GOS? Are you using GigaStudio 2.5, 3.0 or a conversion to another sample format? I ask because a great deal of time was spent 3 or 4 years ago adjusting intonation region-by-region with custom MIDI test files and using Auto-tune as a reference for reading values. These values were then transfered to the regions at the sample level within GigaStudio. All intonation values are the sum of these plus the overall values placed at the instrument level (if any). The dual location of these values can cause problems with translations to other formats, for instance. If, on the other hand, you are using the new GS 3.0 then we might need to see if there is a problem with the new version reading tuning values correctly. If you are using the native GS 2.5 format, another possibility would be our using different software for analyzing the tuning of the samples. We have found that different software (and even the same software in different modes) can give different values. As I said, we used Auto-tune during development.


  6. #6

    Re: GOS Instrument Pitch Maps

    Gary, Tom, thanks for your response -- perhaps it is indeed an equipment change that caused notes not quite in tune, or I'm doing something wrong. That would be a pleasant surprise -- or maybe this is an undocumented feature of the 'Maestro Tools', to tune instruments? (Hope not, the manual says: "GOS is in no way dependent upon Maestro Tools")

    All these recent pitch evaluations use my 2001-copyright GOS; neither of the two updates (2001, 2003) I have received has changed these particular files. And, there is vibrato involved, which makes precise tuning more difficult (not much on the low c, thank you)

    I have been using Gigastudio 3 while doing these tests. Did not calibrate the tuner, though I did cross check. You can hear the fluctuations in the D3 and G3 pretty easily.

    And, furthermore, despite the many variances listed, GOS is actually BETTER than the other two string libraries I own: the strings from Advanced Orchestra and the VSL Horizons Solo Strings. AO ranges up to 24 c sharp (Eb3, sus f leg) and VSL 24 c sharp (F#4 ff, VC_mV_sus) to 18c flat (G#4 ff, VC_mV_sus).

    I just got an old copy of gigastudio 2.5 running again and checked, and the result is the same.

    An example GOS_susV_samples.mp3 is here:


    Contains 4 notes: C3 pp, D3 ff, G3 ff and C#5 ff. The C3 is better, reviewing, than I had it listed; the D3 and G3 perhaps worse.

    If there is any solution for this it would certainly be welcome. I experimented with recording all the pitch changes and reversing them -- but that eliminates expression, doesn't work at all well!

    While writing this lengthy note, I also recorded some sick-sounding thirds using the D3 and G3 plus a correctly tuned cello-with-vibrato sample from a Kurzweil synth:


    It was this kind of result that got me looking at tuning!

  7. #7

    Re: GOS Instrument Pitch Maps

    Update -- the gigastudio 3 seems to correctly handle fine tune changes programmed for gigastudio 2; at least, they show up in the editor correctly.

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