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Topic: GS3 Bugs - What's Up Doc?

  1. #1

    GS3 Bugs - What's Up Doc?

    The intent of this thread is to expound beyond the issue list at the Tascam web site.


    Here are specific bugs that limit my ability to utilize GS3:

    1) The GS3 Orchestra crashes the XP Pro sp1 OS fatally when attempting to load instruments into memory over the 71% mark. To reproduce build a performance in GS2.5.4 that loads up to 99% memory. Save before getting any error message. On a machine with GS3 and access to the exact same gig files, load the performance. GS3 loads and plays it, reading 71% memory. Attempt to load another instrument. The XP OS crashes and burns. On a good day you get a cryptic warning message before the OS pops, but even then a second attempt to load an instrument kills the system (it is worse than blue screen, try it you'll see). Scenario is not good when in the midst of a session with a client. It is a bit like the Limo gas gauge reading more than 1/4 full when the tank is empty and the car is on the highway.

    2) The 'New Performance' item off the File menu (and toolbar) does not work. Similarly, save an empty performance when the application is first launched. Now try and load it at a later time to clear out memory. Only way to clear all sample memory or build a new performance from scratch is to exit the application and restart GS3. Essentially the very first item off the file menu is broken, and memory management over all is in question.

    3) Listed on assorted forums' threads: MIDI program with bank changes do not work smoothly. This is basic functionality that is unforgivable if broken on a hardware synth, sampler, or rompler. This broken feature gives the current GS3 software the vibe of being a public beta (I wrote this before seeing the other 'public beta' comments).

    4) GS3 is not easy to install cleanly. Uninstall GS2.5.4 from a machine. Run gigaclean. Correct registry by hand for MIDI section to prevent super buggy overwrite (see the RME HDSP9652/9632 document from another thread, it applys also to .dll's for other sound cards and/or software that can be in the same slot). Now do a search of the registry for items like 'Nemesys', 'Tascam', 'Gigastudio', 'Gigaedit'. Decide for yourself if you are ready to install GS3 or first to manually delete remaining giga registry entries (attached to things like the shell) that Uninstall and Gigaclean missed. Even with a fresh install of the XP OS, that Midi section in the registry needs to be manually attended to (dependent on sound card).

    5) Hold and sustain one or more notes. Double click an item in quick sound to load it (perhaps by accident, just looking for an instrument). Listen to something like a broken test of the emergency broadcast system for the duration of the load (can be a long time depending on the size of the instrument).

    It only takes about 1/2 an hour to get a Tascam GS3 tech on the phone (cool, at least you can get one), but they don't necessarily put your bug or feedback into a database. Tascam support can not give you a case or bug number.

    On a positive note, after a clean install and a 'tip toe' approach to the software, I am able to get 702-720 voices off a two drive SATA raid and top of the line P4. Gigapulse is cool, and puremode is only costing about an extra 4% on the CPU gauge (however if puremode is on, there are audible clicks in the audio stream even though no notes are being played. Occurs while GigaEdit is open and idling). The VSL content that comes with GS3 is outstanding and the VSL 16 bit versions work with GS2.5.4 (a consolation prize for attempting to get GS3 to work in a production capacity).

    I enjoyed the demos and look forward to purchasing some of the new GS3 content when the application stabilizes, responding to program/bank changes correctly, and doesn't crash and burn the OS quite so easily.

  2. #2

    Re: GS3 Bugs - What's Up Doc?


    q: do you have more then 1gb of ram? if so see my other thread about this issue.
    Digital AudionetworX

    mac - pc - gigastudio
    berlin - germany

  3. #3

    Re: GS3 Bugs - What's Up Doc?


    I hadn't seen item 2 (new performance issue) before. I'll check that out more deeply, as I hadn't seen that on my system before). Fortunately there is a workaround. (Stop/start the app.)

    702 - 720 voices? Yowza!


  4. #4

    Re: GS3 Bugs - What's Up Doc?

    Yes over 1 GB, the GS3 machine has four 1 gig sticks of PC3200. Identical hardware to the GS2.5.4 box. Obviously registry tweaks are in place to get the GS2.5.4 box to the 99% memory mark. The same tweaks are in place on the GS3 setup to enable it to load large performances built with GS2.5.4

    With this configuration I see that I can not load more instruments with GS3 than GS2.5.4, in fact GS2.5.4 can load more samples safely when building a performance from scratch. Worst case with the GS2.5.4 is that I get a Gigastudio '1004 Out Of Memory' message, but I can keep working smoothly. MSG32.exe holds 1087.5 Megs with GS2.5.4, and there is still enough memory (and cpu) to comfortably run a sequencer, wave editor, even a rewire app and/or a couple of (vst, vsti, or dxi) plugs. Just give GS2.5.4 its own exclusive use of a SATA raid for streaming and it is happy and stable at 99% memory.

    In contrast GS3 blows up at the memory threshold. Any large 24bit or 96k instruments can push one over the threshold fast. Forget the onboard sequencer, rewire app, or additional plugs. The basic application needs to work stand alone first. The over 1GB thread does mention to set the System Properties/Startup and Recovery/Automatically Restart to 'Off'. This looks like good advice. Otherwise the GS3 WinXP OS crash is so heavy, the brakes on the hard disks hit hard during the read, and it sounds like an HD platter is going to crash.

  5. #5

    Re: GS3 Bugs - What's Up Doc?

    >Yes over 1 GB, the GS3 machine has four 1 gig sticks of PC3200. Identical >hardware to the GS2.5.4 box. Obviously registry tweaks are in place to get >the GS2.5.4 box to the 99% memory mark. The same tweaks are in place on >the GS3 setup to enable it to load large performances built with GS2.5.4


    this is not working at the moment. 2gb of ram and pagingmemory twaeks are giving loads of troulbe. btw. there seems to be no reason for mor then 2gb anyway.

    >With this configuration I see that I can not load more instruments with GS3 >than GS2.5.4, in fact GS2.5.4 can load more samples safely when building a >performance from scratch.


    this things have definatly to be sorted out oon.
    Digital AudionetworX

    mac - pc - gigastudio
    berlin - germany

  6. #6

    Re: GS3 Bugs - What's Up Doc?

    Let's continue again from where the bug list left off. Just creating a list of issues I encounter while trying to get some work done.

    6) Load up an instrument with a single sample stretched across the playable range. Anvils from the G-Town site is one such instrument that is readily available to use.

    Now open the quick edit screen and attempt to adjust the 'Global Volume' or 'Decay1'. Below the knob in the text value read out often I see:

    '-1.$' for global volume

    '-1.#IO' for decay1

    For a given instrument one, both, either, or no values may be off. There is not alot of consistency between instruments, just that single sample instruments often exhibit this phenomena. I've looked at translator created gigs and other sources, single sample instruments often (but not always) do the same thing.

    When it occurs, go to the filter type drop down (other drop down parameters also). Notice the list has doubled up, for example:


    - - - - - - - --

    7) Cognexant Wavestream Error followed by crash in GigaEdit3:

    Get the current version of Translator Pro (build 69).

    With Translator try to convert a .nki file to a .gig. It makes the file but no notes play. There are some free .nki banks available on the Alchemy Studio site (and the free .gig piano sounds great for how little sample memory it utilizes).

    Now try to edit the file (example file: bells.gig converted from the .nki file) in Gigaedit3 and get message 'fixed bad wave links'. Get a prompt to save. Select Save As. Select gig 2 format. Overwrite the file (the file is not loaded into memory in GS3, it was merely selected to edit via GS3 quick sound interface). Application terminiates with Cognexant Wavestream Error while in giga edit. Now hit the 'Don't send to Microsoft' button. System blue screen crash with error 'Process_Has_Locked_Pages'.

    OK, to save you all some trouble if you are attempting to save in such a scenario. Do a save as, use the giga 3 format, and pick a new gig file name. This is the way to avoid the Cognexant Wavestream Error while in giga edit. Good news is Gigaedit3 can correct issues in it detects in gig files, just be careful how you save.

    - - - - - - - - -

    8) Slow, glitchy behavior when selecting a gig file to edit while using Gigaedit3.

    Open Gigaedit3 and use its open file menu command to select a gig. You see a cool looking custom made open file dialog. Click on a gig. If the instrument has some meat to it (i.e. lots of long samples) it can take a long time for the name to highlight. For a while it appears as if the name was not even clicked. Be patient, eventually the name highlights. Now use the up/dwn arrow keys to rapidly navigate through the gig file list, and observe slow glitchy behavior.

    The suggested fix for the developer(s) is to highlight the name immediately on select. Do a time out, or wait for some other kind of user input before loading all the sample names and making the samples available to audition. After all it is an open file dialog. For someone who knows what file they want to open, it will make the whole operation a lot smoother.

    - - - - - - - - -

    9) 'Error locating ptbl start. The file may be corrupt.You should save your file with a new file name...' error with debug info.

    To reproduce open a V3 gig file from Gigaedit3. Attempt to save it with the same name in V2 format and overwrite the existing file. You get the message and the file is now corrupt (be certain to manually delete it later). It is easy to recover your work. Select a new file location and name, do a save. To avoid the error completely simply be careful not to save in V2 format over a V3 file.

    A few positive comments here. That I can save a V3 gig as a V2 gig is excellent. Currently I am using the GS3 editor to build all my new custom gigs. I can build an instrument with 24 bit depth, and save it in V2 16 bit format. Good job!

    Gigaedit3 appears to be well tested relative to the GS3 player. In fact having the V3 editor open during player usage appears to improve the stability of GS3. Changes made (instrument copy, edit, and such) and quick sound integration with the player are superior to the offering in GS2.5 (where giga edit is often deadly unless you know where the land mines are).

    For a sound developer or a power user who spends time getting into the fine details of their instruments, GS3 offers a lot today relative to GS2.5, keep up the good work.

    Performances on the other hand still need to be built in GS2.5.4 to be usable with both software versions. This ensures file compatibility and enables one to safely load more samples without crashing.

    - - - - - - - - -

    10) The GS3 CPU gauge is glitchy.

    If the PC is hovering between 21% and %22 usage there is no need for the CPU meter to go crazy flickering. Better to have a peak hold approach and/or just provide a number for usage. Not only is it visually distracting with a super fast CPU, screen updates can steal from audio smoothness when running multiple audio applications and pushing the system hard. This is true even if one can get away with having no video driver installed (as some high end audio PC hardware providers deliver their turn key solutions).

    The glitchy CPU gauge just makes me uncomfortable, and I would rather not have to minimize the application just to avoid suspected side effects of such screen updates.

    - - - - - - - - -

    Done reporting new bugs, here is a word about having plenty of RAM (large today is small tomorrow).

    When professional 16 bit hardware samplers hit the market RAM was about $50 a megabyte. Now that one can buy an extra 2 gig of memory for less than the cost of a decent sound library, such a purchase is easy to make. Sadly, XP today can only use about 3/4 of the combined memory in four 1 gig sticks for a stable audio configuration. However with GS2.5.4 it is unbelievable what other software can run simultaneously on such a system.

    Over $200,000 worth of memory relative to the buying power of yester year is easily purchased today at a fraction of the price. The sampler that can load the most samples into memory at once wins, who will stand up to the challenge?

    That's all for now folks.

  7. #7

    Re: GS3 Bugs - What's Up Doc?

    Quote Originally Posted by PhattRaid
    Over $200,000 worth of memory relative to the buying power of yester year is easily purchased today at a fraction of the price. The sampler that can load the most samples into memory at once wins, who will stand up to the challenge?
    That's all for now folks.
    that is probably kontakt on a G5 at the moment but can you play 800 voices there?
    Digital AudionetworX

    mac - pc - gigastudio
    berlin - germany

  8. #8

    Re: GS3 Bugs - What's Up Doc?

    11) Juxtaposed dialogs followed by blue screen and ew.sys crash.

    To reproduce build a large performance in 2.5.4 and save it, then build a larger variation in V2.5.4 of the performance that utilizes all available memory.

    In GS3, load the smaller performance. Now load the larger performance. Before it finishes loading a dialog appears underneath the 'Loading Instrument' dialog. One problem is all that one can see is the OK button on the new dialog; the 'Loading Instrument' dialog covers the new dialog and the 'Loading Instrument' dialog can not be re-positioned.

    Click OK a couple of times on the unreadable dialog. Give up after a few clicks, as the OK dialog keeps on coming back. Click cancel on the 'Loading Instrument' dialog.

    It is now possible to continue working only for a short time. Load another small performance and get the blue screen ew.sys crash.

    12) Usage for GS3 in msg32.exe is unpredictable.

    GS3 is apparently attempting to do some kind of trick for loading instruments more quickly that is causing inconsistencies in memory management. Create or load a small %9 memory performance. Exit the application. Restart. Now load a little instrument that only takes %2 or %3 of memory. The memory usage is over %10. Reload the %9 memory performance. See %17 memory usage, an inconsistent problem.

    It is no triumph to get msg32.exe to reach high values when some memory used in msg32.exe is not referenced in any way by the current performance.

    Compare the usage in msg32 for GS2.5.4 and GS3 for a given performance. With the exact same sample set and performance, the memory usage in msg32.exe is lower in V2.5.4 than in V3. This is true even after a fresh boot (i.e. the issue of intermittent residual usage of memory assigned to msg32 for V3 is not factored in). To complicate matters, memory usage in msg32.exe is often inconsistent in V3 for a given performance from one load to the next.

    13) Intermittently all of the instrument slots come up with blank assignment in the midi mixer.

    To reproduce this issue build a performance that uses all 128 instrument slots, but uses less than %25 of sample memory. Save the file. Exit application. Reload the performance. All instrument slots are often blank, yet the instruments are loaded into memory.

    14) Very useful feature concerning instrument assignments in GS V2.5.4 is missing from GS V3.

    When clicking on the instrument slot arrow in the midi mixer assignment window in V2.5.4, there is the option to 'click assign' an instrument into the current slot from a list of all the loaded instruments. In version 3 there appears to be no such option. As MIDI program/bank change is broken in GS3, it is difficult to do the assignment remote of the GS3 interface. As a result the 'click assign' feature is missed more than ever (especially if some or all the instrument assignments are blank, see issue 13).

  9. #9

    Re: GS3 Bugs - What's Up Doc?

    For the contents of this online 'document' (thread) a single processor 3.4 Ghz P4 is utilized as the hardware. Hyper threading is disabled (verifiied the disabled setting in the bios, and never turned it on). When I purchased this 4U rack unit from a well respected audio system provider, they told me best just to leave hyper threading off.

    One bit of advice for people wishing to achieve high polyphony is to physically place only one 'drive' on each drive controller (except raid controllers). A dual ATA controller may support four drives, but more than one drive on each controller will slow drive throughput and limit polyphony. An array of drives in a raid 0 (no data redundancy) configuration is conceptually a lot like a single high performance drive.

    To achieve 700 plus voices the polyphony cap is set to over 900, and the GS3 CPU gauge maxes out at 50% - 54% with 700 plus voices and a single instance of GigaPulse. The SATA raid is a 2 drive 1/2 terabyte setup running at 7200 rpm with the controller built into the motherboard. In the case of the 700 plus voices the top 100 voices were played live from a MIDI keyboard to get a feel for latency under heavy polyphonic load, the other notes played from a sequencer on a seperate MIDI port. The audio card is an HDSP9652. The system has not been pushed to its polyphonic breaking point, yet it is anticipated faster rpm drives are required to get the polyphony much higher.

    However, for all the bugs and issues listed in this document the polyphony cap is set to a low value and the CPU meter kept well below 30%.

  10. #10

    Re: GS3 Bugs - What's Up Doc?

    For the life (and usability) of Gigastudio3, hopefully the bank/preset change issues will get corrected soon.

    Get the details of the new 3.0.1 patch release from these documents:


    How come so many reproducible bugs from this forum (and presumably also the black hole of Tascam email tech support) didn't make it onto the known issues list?

    - - - - -

    Here is a GS V3.0.1 bug, but probably in V3 also:

    15) Corrupt characters and potential crash when saving V3 file in V2 format.

    Save a V3 gig with embedded impulse in V2 format and pick a new file name. To reproduce this issue, the Westgate Guitar on the GS3 install DVDs makes it easy. Try to load the V2 instrument in GS301, get message 'Gigapulse Can Not Load Encoded Instrument Impulses' followed by corrupt looking characters. Then get untitled application error 'instruction at referenced memory' hassles. One can still exit GS301 gracefully and reboot, otherwise more error messages and a blue screen crash are just around the corner.

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