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Topic: What if America were Iraq?

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    What if America were Iraq?

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    I thought this was an interesting article:


    If America were Iraq, What would it be Like?

    by Juan Cole, University of Michigan

    President Bush said Tuesday that the Iraqis are refuting the pessimists and implied that things are improving in that country.

    What would America look like if it were in Iraq's current situation? The population of the US is over 11 times that of Iraq, so a lot of statistics would have to be multiplied by that number.

    Thus, violence killed 300 Iraqis last week, the equivalent proportionately of 3,300 Americans. What if 3,300 Americans had died in car bombings, grenade and rocket attacks, machine gun spray, and aerial bombardment in the last week? That is a number greater than the deaths on September 11, and if America were Iraq, it would be an ongoing, weekly or monthly toll.

    And what if those deaths occurred all over the country, including in the capital of Washington, DC, but mainly above the Mason Dixon line, in Boston, Minneapolis, Salt Lake City, and San Francisco?

    What if the grounds of the White House and the government buildings near the Mall were constantly taking mortar fire? What if almost nobody in the State Department at Foggy Bottom, the White House, or the Pentagon dared venture out of their buildings, and considered it dangerous to go over to Crystal City or Alexandria?

    What if all the reporters for all the major television and print media were trapped in five-star hotels in Washington, DC and New York, unable to move more than a few blocks safely, and dependent on stringers to know what was happening in Oklahoma City and St. Louis? What if the only time they ventured into the Midwest was if they could be embedded in Army or National Guard units?

    There are estimated to be some 25,000 guerrillas in Iraq engaged in concerted acts of violence. What if there were private armies totalling 275,000 men, armed with machine guns, assault rifles (legal again!), rocket-propelled grenades, and mortar launchers, hiding out in dangerous urban areas of cities all over the country? What if they completely controlled Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas, Denver and Omaha, such that local police and Federal troops could not go into those cities?

    What if, during the past year, the Secretary of State (Aqilah Hashemi), the President (Izzedine Salim), and the Attorney General (Muhammad Baqir al-Hakim) had all been assassinated?

    What if all the cities in the US were wracked by a crime wave, with thousands of murders, kidnappings, burglaries, and carjackings in every major city every year?

    What if the Air Force routinely (I mean daily or weekly) bombed Billings, Montana, Flint, Michigan, Watts in Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Anacostia in Washington, DC, and other urban areas, attempting to target "safe houses" of "criminal gangs", but inevitably killing a lot of children and little old ladies?

    What if, from time to time, the US Army besieged Virginia Beach, killing hundreds of armed members of the Christian Soldiers? What if entire platoons of the Christian Soldiers militia holed up in Arlington National Cemetery, and were bombarded by US Air Force warplanes daily, destroying thousands of graves and even pulverizing the Vietnam Memorial over on the Mall? What if the National Council of Churches had to call for a popular march of thousands of believers to converge on the National Cathedral to stop the US Army from demolishing it to get at a rogue band of the Timothy McVeigh Memorial Brigades?

    What if there were virtually no commercial air traffic in the country? What if many roads were highly dangerous, especially Interstate 95 from Richmond to Washington, DC, and I-95 and I-91 up to Boston? If you got on I-95 anywhere along that over 500-mile stretch, you would risk being carjacked, kidnapped, or having your car sprayed with machine gun fire.

    What if no one had electricity for much more than 10 hours a day, and often less? What if it went off at unpredictable times, causing factories to grind to a halt and air conditioning to fail in the middle of the summer in Houston and Miami? What if the Alaska pipeline were bombed and disabled at least monthly? What if unemployment hovered around 40%?

    What if veterans of militia actions at Ruby Ridge and the Oklahoma City bombing were brought in to run the government on the theory that you need a tough guy in these times of crisis?

    What if municipal elections were cancelled and cliques close to the new "president" quietly installed in the statehouses as "governors?" What if several of these governors (especially of Montana and Wyoming) were assassinated soon after taking office or resigned when their children were taken hostage by guerrillas?

    What if the leader of the European Union maintained that the citizens of the United States are, under these conditions, refuting pessimism and that freedom and democracy are just around the corner?

  2. #2
    Senior Member
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    Re: What if America were Iraq?

    I'm glad you posted this, Bruce.

    It seems many people dont possess the imagination to empathize until the tanks are rolling up their street.

    Jim

  3. #3

    Re: What if America were Iraq?

    did anyone see the dog any pony show today. reminds me of the old soviet style propaganda speeches. everything is just rosy and fine . what violence? as usual fox-jazerra aired the presidents " press conference" with ZERO critical analysis or commentary.

  4. #4

    Re: What if America were Iraq?

    Thanks Bruce,

    This is one of the most powerful articles I've read on the subject.

    Unfortunately, people with an us-vs.-them midset refuse to apply morals and ethics in symmetry. Maybe this article will help them to see that morality isn't a one way street.

    -JF

  5. #5

    Thumbs down Re: What if America were Iraq?

    Heard this whoooooooole article read last night by a jerk DJ in S.F.

    If you swap WORD FOR WORD; U.S. and Iraq with U.S. and Germany during the 40' then I guess Juan Cole's article proves Hitler too should have been left alone.

  6. #6

    Re: What if America were Iraq?

    All of this already happend. Its was called the civil war. Iraq was southern U.S. and thousands upon thousands died brutally.

  7. #7

    Re: What if America were Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Think_About_It
    Heard this whoooooooole article read last night by a jerk DJ in S.F.

    If you swap WORD FOR WORD; U.S. and Iraq with U.S. and Germany during the 40' then I guess Juan Cole's article proves Hitler too should have been left alone.
    watch that red hering.. No one is saying Hitler should of not been removed. These are completely different circumstances. If anything you can compare this war to Vietnam since we went in there to try and instill Democratic and Capitalistic values upon them (much like what were trying to do in Iraq). History has shown us this will not work.

  8. #8

    Re: What if America were Iraq?

    Okay, how about thinking about symmetrical ethics?

    When Hitler was rising within Germany and building his military, the rest of Europe should have built thier military, joined together and told him to stay in his box. And they should have been prepared in case he marched troops into their box.

    Should, say, France have invaded Germany in 1935? Hell no. Then they would be taking the role of the Hitler. Just as Hitler needed to stay in Germany's box, De Gaulle needed to stay in France.

    The exception would be if an international body, such as the UN voted to form a coalition to act. If no such vote occurred, everybody in his own box. Germany's initial crime was to unilaterally invade a soverign nation. Until that happened no one could see into the future. No other country should have committed that crime either.

    When Saddam invaded Kuwait we acted. He raided another's box and was put back in with force. We were prepared and the Iraqi army was summarily defeated. Maybe Saddam should have been removed at that time. Regardless, he wasn't.

    Now fast forward a dozen years. Did Saddam's armies attack another nation? No. Were his armies lined up on a border ready to attack? No. In 2003 did Saddam commit an act of war? No.

    In this case it was the US who acted unilaterally to attack another nation even though there was no direct, immediate threat and no specific act that we can claim was the trigger for the war. We didn't stay in our box, and as such, the US has no moral authority in this war in Iraq.

    We needed to fight a world war to remove Hitler from power. Thankfully, all we have to do is go to the voting booths to remove Bush.

    -JF

  9. #9

    Re: What if America were Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by JonFairhurst
    We needed to fight a world war to remove Hitler from power. Thankfully, all we have to do is go to the voting booths to remove Bush.

    -JF
    Right on! Well said.

    JG

  10. #10

    Re: What if America were Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Think_About_It
    Heard this whoooooooole article read last night by a jerk DJ in S.F.

    If you swap WORD FOR WORD; U.S. and Iraq with U.S. and Germany during the 40' then I guess Juan Cole's article proves Hitler too should have been left alone.
    If you look at a timeline of Germany during the 1930's, you'll see some VERY unsettling similarities to the U.S. since 2000. Should Bush be left alone -- or should we vote him out in November?

    Germany:

    - After losing election, Hitler APPOINTED Chancellor.

    - Reichstag building goes up in flames. Hilter blames Communists.

    - Hitler convinces Hindenburg to issue Decree for Protection of People and State, giving police new powers that threaten civil rights.

    - Within months, the Dachau concentration camp is created, where guards are taught how to dehumanize prisoners.

    - Persecution of Jews begins.

    - Book burnings.

    - Rampant nationalism.

    - Using Reichstag as justification, Hitler invades Poland.


    U.S.

    - After losing popular vote, Bush APPOINTED President.

    - Twin Towers come crashing down. Bush blames Al Queda.

    - Bush convinces Congress to pass Patriot Act, giving police new powers and threatening civil rights.

    - Within months, Arabs and Arab-Americans are rounded up and put in a concentration camp, where guards learn how to dehumanize prisoners.

    - Persecution of Muslims begins.

    - CD Burnings.

    - Rampant nationalism.

    - Using 9/11 as justification, Bush invades Iraq.

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