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Topic: Tonal, Modal, Atonal: Improved?

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  1. #1
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    Tonal, Modal, Atonal: Improved?

    I’m going to try this again. This is the second (maybe third?) movement to St. George and the Dragon. I have the Third (or is it second?) movement started and the fourth planned so I decided to go back and fill this in a bit and hopefully fix it.

    I still need to clean up some spots, but from the last time I posted I cleaned it up a bit, played with the dynamics (still needs work) and changed a few parts.

    This is supposed to be a funeral march followed by a lament section. The funeral march is very tonal. I wrote a 12 tone row for the lament but started by trying to put it into Phrygian to start (hard to when it uses a few more tones than existed when this mode was common). Later I take out the harmony and let it go as straight 12 tone. Up until the pseudo-Phrygian reappears at the very end everything is based on the row or the Inverse, Retrograde or Inverted Retrograde; even those funny violin “cat cries”.

    Better than it was before? Still Bad? Time to start over on this? Throw away the funeral march bit and work on the 12 tone part? Get rid of the fanfare at the beginning? Let me know what you think.

    http://trentsworld.com/music/posting...-8-10-2004.mp3
    Trent P. McDonald

  2. #2

    Smile Re: Tonal, Modal, Atonal: Improved?

    Hi Trent,

    funeral march - I thought you used the open 5ths in a interesting way. Sometimes the chords seem to be to thin however, I think you're looking for that lush thick string chords sound. Right?

    lament - Nice stressfull movement but with some relax sections which are put in very appropriate places.

    However, it was nice touch to come with some hint from the march again in the end. But I would like some longer reference to that part.

    Good job!

    Btw. I would like to see the score.
    Sincerely,
    Falcon1


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  3. #3
    Senior Member Styxx's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: Tonal, Modal, Atonal: Improved?

    Trentpmcd - Hey, this is awesome just my type of music.
    The only suggestion I have (and this is purely a percussionist experience) is never give the guy on the snare the last note(s) in a composition. He just might take the opportunity to improvise! No telling what may happen. SOLO!

    All kidding aside, this is one spectacular piece of music. Thanks for posting.

    Falcon1 - I think you are suffering from brain freeze? Just kidding.
    Styxx

  4. #4

    Talking Re: Tonal, Modal, Atonal: Improved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Styxx
    Falcon1 - I think you are suffering from brain freeze? Just kidding.
    What do you mean?
    Sincerely,
    Falcon1


    icelandphotoblog.com
    my cafepress store
    my fine art print store
    my music store

    Please support your fellow musician from Iceland where the currency has fallen 70% against USD and 90% against EURO! Every dollar or euro counts!


  5. #5
    Senior Member Styxx's Avatar
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    Re: Tonal, Modal, Atonal: Improved?

    Quote Originally Posted by falcon1
    What do you mean?
    Just thought I would pull your leg a bit....gets ya thankin don't it partner.
    Styxx

  6. #6

    Talking Re: Tonal, Modal, Atonal: Improved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Styxx
    Just thought I would pull your leg a bit....gets ya thankin don't it partner.
    hehehe... yes, it got me thankin.
    Sincerely,
    Falcon1


    icelandphotoblog.com
    my cafepress store
    my fine art print store
    my music store

    Please support your fellow musician from Iceland where the currency has fallen 70% against USD and 90% against EURO! Every dollar or euro counts!


  7. #7
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    Re: Tonal, Modal, Atonal: Improved?

    Thanks for your feedback.

    Falcon1 – I don’t know if I was looking for “lush thick chords”, but wasn’t looking for thin either. I want something that sounds kind of stark and desolate. Anyway, I’ll take a more critical look at the voicings in the funeral march.

    I had originally thought of putting more of the funeral march at the end. I may take another look at it and see if I can come up with something that works.

    I’ll see if I can get a clean looking score to post.

    Thanks again for your comments.

    Styxx – Do you think letting the trumpet player have the last note would be a better idea? – I used to play trumpet and know how some them act…… Anyway, there is another movement following shortly after this so hopefully I won’t have to worry.

    I was up in your neck of the woods recently. I spent a few days in the Niagara Falls area. As one storm after another hit us coming off Lake Erie I was glad I wasn’t there in January.

    Thanks for your comments.
    Trent P. McDonald

  8. #8
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    Re: Tonal, Modal, Atonal: Improved?

    Thanks for posting the next movement of "St. George and the Dragon."
    I so much enjoyed the first version you posted in April and the progress you have made since then.

    You asked "Still Bad?" Was never bad to begin with and you just keep improving. For your first attempt at orchestration this is amazing.
    You developed your themes quite nicely and there are very compelling moments.

    I think you are going to like the new updates, especially for the fanfare.
    A suggestion I have for a funeral march is to add more bottom voices at times. To feel it deep down. Perhaps double the octave down with a double bass or tuba. I really liked how you did those string glissandos at 5:30 - how did you do that? Really cool effect.

    This is an ambitious and fantastic work and again I appreciate your sharing it with us. I am looking forward to hearing more.

    Gary Garritan

  9. #9
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    Re: Tonal, Modal, Atonal: Improved?

    Thanks for your comments Gary.

    I think I’ll try your suggestion of doubling the bass. I had the viola and the cello in unison to keep interest in the new lines while the violins played parts the viola had already played. This might drown out the bass a bit so maybe doubling it would help keep it from getting lost. I have a few other things to work on but I need to continue on the next movement soon – it is the yang to this movements yin – up tempo, very major and a little more complicated in the harmonies, modulations, etc.

    The glissandos, both where you pointed out and at around 4:40, were played in using pitch-bend. I later re-drew the pitch-bends in Cubase to get them all about the same length. The first time (at 4:40) I used all of the violas (section and 2 ensemble instruments) while the second time I used just the strad solo.

    I look forward to the new updates to GPO.
    Trent P. McDonald

  10. #10
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    Re: Tonal, Modal, Atonal: Improved?

    A quick update with dynamics changed a little and the bass part being doubled through most of the funeral march:
    http://trentsworld.com/music/posting...-8-15-2004.mp3 about 5.5 MB.
    Trent P. McDonald

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