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Topic: Feedback Requested - St. George 2nd Movement

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  1. #1
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    Feedback Requested - St. George 2nd Movement

    Well, here is a very (very, very) rough draft of the second movement of my St. George and the Dragon. This is much simpler than the first movement and much darker.

    Before I wrote a note I knew what I wanted done with this: I wanted a funeral march followed by a lament, which would be a mournful, almost chaotic, atonal section. You tell me if I succeeded.

    Funeral March –

    OK, so I stole this from Beethoven. Always steal from the best (and helps if they were deaf).

    Actually, the theme is different, the harmony is different, the rhythms and the meter and feel are different. Yet it is obvious where I got the idea. (7th Symphony, second movement)

    Questions – Is the fanfare at the beginning too long? Do I even need it? I took some time to come up with a tempo that sounds like a funeral march without putting the audience to sleep. Did I succeed?

    Lament-

    I wanted a medieval feel in the beginning and end with an atonal part that almost breaks down into total chaos.

    I started with a 12 tone row. I did all of the serial preliminaries and wrote out o, i, r and ir rows for each of the 12 tones. Fine. I then did something that might make Berg and Shoenberg roll over in their graves – I harmonized my original row. I even took the first note and added it to the end. I did the harmony (and counterpoint) with the Phrygian mode. As the lament goes on I take out the harmony and replace it with versions of the row until it is totally serial. And then back to Phrygian for the end.

    Is this part successful?

    I was originally going to go back into the funeral march, but I like this ending. What do you think: back into the funeral march?

    http://trentsworld.com/music/posting...-7-15-2004.mp3 (Link Editied 7-15-2004)
    Last edited by trentpmcd; 07-15-2004 at 04:47 PM. Reason: Link Updated
    Trent P. McDonald

  2. #2

    Re: Feedback Requested - St. George 2nd Movement

    Quote Originally Posted by trentpmcd
    Well, here is a very (very, very) rough draft of the second movement of my St. George and the Dragon. This is much simpler than the first movement and much darker.

    Before I wrote a note I knew what I wanted done with this: I wanted a funeral march followed by a lament, which would be a mournful, almost chaotic, atonal section. You tell me if I succeeded.

    Funeral March Š

    OK, so I stole this from Beethoven. Always steal from the best (and helps if they were deaf).

    Actually, the theme is different, the harmony is different, the rhythms and the meter and feel are different. Yet it is obvious where I got the idea. (7th Symphony, second movement)

    Questions Š Is the fanfare at the beginning too long? Do I even need it? I took some time to come up with a tempo that sounds like a funeral march without putting the audience to sleep. Did I succeed?

    Lament-

    I wanted a medieval feel in the beginning and end with an atonal part that almost breaks down into total chaos.

    I started with a 12 tone row. I did all of the serial preliminaries and wrote out o, i, r and ir rows for each of the 12 tones. Fine. I then did something that might make Berg and Shoenberg roll over in their graves Š I harmonized my original row. I even took the first note and added it to the end. I did the harmony (and counterpoint) with the Phrygian mode. As the lament goes on I take out the harmony and replace it with versions of the row until it is totally serial. And then back to Phrygian for the end.

    Is this part successful?

    I was originally going to go back into the funeral march, but I like this ending. What do you think: back into the funeral march?

    http://trentsworld.com/music/posting...t-7-8-2004.mp3
    Hi Trent,

    I think you succeeded in your aims. I think the funeral march is just the right length. I don't think you need to necessarily repeat it. Stylistically, I would perhaps quote enough of it (or portions of it) at the end to really bring that ending home.
    The tone-row material was nice - I like your orchestration in this section. I can't profess to be an expert in 20th cent. styles, but I have a basic working knowledge and understanding of them and have tried them in various ways in my own work.
    What did you do for playback? Is this through a sequencer, or a notation program?

    Jerry

  3. #3
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    Re: Feedback Requested - St. George 2nd Movement

    Thanks for the comments.

    I really don’t know a whole lot about any “serious/classic” style let alone 20th century ones, but I do try to play around with things like serialism a little. I find it fascinating and want to get to a point where it is my “bag of tools” for when I want to use it.

    I played everything into Cubase. Most of it I wrote out on paper first. I did a little more cut and paste in the 12 tone section than I usually like to do.
    Trent P. McDonald

  4. #4

    Re: Feedback Requested - St. George 2nd Movement

    I think you succeeded in your goal. Not sure about the funeral march being too long. I didn't find my mind wandering at the beginning so I'd say that's a good sign. The strings need legato added, and the brass in the opening fanfare seemed a little loose but that may have been intentional. The mix was good and I think the ambience fit the piece nicely. Nice one.

  5. #5
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    Re: Feedback Requested - St. George 2nd Movement

    Joseph, Thanks for the comments. The trumpet fanfare at the begining(which is what I was wondering if it was too long) was supposed to have a loose feel, but after listening again I agree that it might be too loose. I went back and tightened it up. There are a few places I will eventually make the strings legato but I am also going to keep a lot of it more detached. When I put in the ensemble strings I will have a better feel for where I want to change it.

    I changed the link to newer version with a cleaner beging and a small tag at the end.

    Thanks again for listening.
    Trent P. McDonald

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