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Topic: Is Halion (3) sample accurate?

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  1. #1

    Is Halion (3) sample accurate?

    Might be a stupid question, but I know of a few sample 'engines' that aren't, like the UVI engine that Spectrasonics uses for their products.

    I'd like to know, since I'm moving over to Nuendo after my current project from Logic and Halion 3 seems like a great alternative to the EXS24 !

    Cheers,

    Joe

  2. #2

    Re: Is Halion (3) sample accurate?

    Well Halion 1 was. Halion 2 is. So my guess is Halion 3 will be.

    Just so you don't have to take my word for it, its advertised as sample accurate on Steinberg's website here (near the bottom of the page)....

    http://www.steinberg.net/ProductPage...80&Langue_ID=2

    The non sample accuracy of the UVI engine used in Atmosphere, Trilogy and Stylus is news to me though. If they aren't sample accurate, whatever it is that they are doing has never caused me the slightest problem.

    Steve

  3. #3

    Re: Is Halion (3) sample accurate?

    Hi Joris,

    yes, HALion 1-2-3 are all sample accurate, especially if use them in Nuendo...

    yes, you can really be safe that HALion is a wonderful alternative to EXS24! (I am a Logic user...)

    In Nuendo you will also anjoy full delay compensation on every channel of the mixer with VST2.3 compliant plugins...

    Best regards,

    Simone Coen
    Simone Coen
    Musician, Producer, Sample Library Producer
    www.chocolateaudio.com

  4. #4

    Re: Is Halion (3) sample accurate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Rees
    Well Halion 1 was. Halion 2 is. So my guess is Halion 3 will be.

    Just so you don't have to take my word for it, its advertised as sample accurate on Steinberg's website here (near the bottom of the page)....

    http://www.steinberg.net/ProductPage...80&Langue_ID=2

    The non sample accuracy of the UVI engine used in Atmosphere, Trilogy and Stylus is news to me though. If they aren't sample accurate, whatever it is that they are doing has never caused me the slightest problem.

    Steve
    Thanks!

    You'll only notice it (non sample accuracy) on extremely dense midi edits, like 48th or 64th notes on say 120 bpm; probably never on regular playing.
    But one track I was doing a while back had a few 'stutter' edits like that and it was quite noticeable (atmosphere) that it wasn't completely sync.

    Simone,

    thanks for the heads up. Yep, I know about the delay compensation; I bought Nuendo 2 months ago but so far have only done some light work with it, as my current project is in Logic.
    But I must say they are doing a lot of things right with Nuendo; audio editing, project and VSTi handling is waaaaay better than Logic, and the macros are a stroke of genius.
    Still miss a few things from Logic though, like Solo lock and the EXS, so I hope Halion works as well as advertised, as the diskstreaming of the EXS is only second to GS.

    Anyway, looks like Halion 3 is next on my list!

    Cheers guys,

    Joe

  5. #5

    Re: Is Halion (3) sample accurate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joris de Man
    the diskstreaming of the EXS is only second to GS.
    Uh - are you sure about that? HALion and Kontakt both have incredible streaming engines - and I personally have a hard time imagining that EXS on the Mac would beat anything on PC. Some of the recent "dynamic memory allocation" updates that the Mac platform have gotten might allow them to close the gap - but I'd like to see objective data on that assertion before I let it pass without a comment.

    ... and I mean truly objective data, not Steve Jobs marketing results...
    Houston Haynes - Titan Line Music

  6. #6

    Re: Is Halion (3) sample accurate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Houston Haynes
    Uh - are you sure about that? HALion and Kontakt both have incredible streaming engines - and I personally have a hard time imagining that EXS on the Mac would beat anything on PC. Some of the recent "dynamic memory allocation" updates that the Mac platform have gotten might allow them to close the gap - but I'd like to see objective data on that assertion before I let it pass without a comment.

    ... and I mean truly objective data, not Steve Jobs marketing results...
    Hey Houston,

    I should have said IMHO. But I am getting amazing performance from the EXS, and although I don't know about Halion, it sure as hell beats the NI diskstreaming.
    On my Dual 1ghz mac I'm getting around 55 instances of the EXS all loaded with gigapatches (mostly LOP, GS and some VSL).
    Compared to my P4 2.4 at home with QLSO, in which I get maybe two to three instances at the most, that is pretty damn good, but I agree that it is not a scientific test.
    Also, the EXS is quite good when it doesn't get data in time; a few stutters perhaps but nothing like the ear-tearing white noise bursts I get with NI.

    That having been said, the EXS is one of the few redeeming features in logic for me right now: I'm getting seriously pissed off with the bugs in it (the harder you hit it, the more it cocks up) and after this project will switch to Nuendo (on a dual opteron setup).
    Halion 3 looks very good to me and I hope it is as easy to program as the EXS.
    The two should make a great pair!

    Cheers,

    Joe

  7. #7

    Re: Is Halion (3) sample accurate?

    Just thinking about going from Logic to Nuendo. Its worth considering Cubase SX. I believe Nuendo does everything SX does, but it may be you don't need the extra 'post production' features of Nuendo, and you can save some hard earned cash to invest in more Halion libraries yaaaaaaaaay. Its always been a bit hard to pin down exactly what is in Nuendo versus SX, and what the future plans are, although this has got a lot clearer with the releases of Nuendo 2 and SX 2. Perhaps there is a comparison table somewhere of the two products, but I haven't found it yet. SX certainly does everything I need it to, and then some!

    I use the Halion / SX combination by the way, and it works a treat. Hopefully even better when Halion 3 arrives. Whichever you choose out of SX and Nuendo, I think you'll be very happy. Development on Halion ever since Halion 2 came out has been excellent too. The Cubase Halion forum is very very good, and now we have this forum too, which can only be a good thing.

    Steve

  8. #8

    Re: Is Halion (3) sample accurate?

    Thanks steve, for your comments.

    I actually already bought Nuendo a few months ago; I got a trade-in offer (for PT, although all you have to do is 'surrender' your manual..I got plenty of those through the upgrades!:P) so it was a pretty good price.
    Haven't done a full project on it yet, although I have done a few surround mixes with the SRS Circlesurround plugin which worked a treat.
    There are a lot of things that I really like about Nuendo, and so far I'm only missing a couple of things, of which the EXS is one but it looks like that problem is solved when I get Halion 3.

    The main differences AFAIK are more surround features and enhanced editing tools (as well as more mixer pages and sync options).
    The nudge tools (which are not in SX) are very handy as well.

    I hope they expand the midi tools a bit more and the scoring to picture features; apart from that I'm pretty happy with it.

    Cheers,

    Joe

  9. #9

    Re: Is Halion (3) sample accurate?

    FYI

    Halion as with all native VST instruments get their clock from the Asio driver as does Cubase and Nuendo. This clock is referencing the Sound cards Wordclock, making it sample accurate. Steinberg is really big on that. Everything in the Nuendo and Cubase engins reference sample position. Even MIDI. Although the display references 480 PPQ by default. This is the case purely for legacy reasons.

  10. #10

    Re: Is Halion (3) sample accurate?

    Welcome Fadi!

    Yes, you're right, but there's a difference between sample accurate clocking and sample accurate playback of events.
    This is the kicker: the UVI engine (the version used on Atmosphere etc. at least) is not sample accurate, meaning that very dense notes that trigger the samples in the VSTi will not play back entirely correctly.
    This has nothing to do with clocking but with the abillity of the plugin to handle a very dense amount (or very quick succession) of notes.
    In this case the host is not the issue (it could be as accurate as an atomic clock:P) but the VSTi.

    Most VSTi's are sample accurate, but some are not. Most of the time you wouldn't even notice if they weren't, except when doing very dense BT like stutter edits (like I was when I noticed it).

    Anyway, it seems all of this is fine with Halion 3 and I'll be getting it soon!

    Cheers,

    Joe

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