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Topic: Finally Finished (sort of)

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  1. #1
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    Finally Finished (sort of)

    (on 7/14 I changed the link to version that is slightly cleaner in some spots)
    (edited again on 6/24/2004 to add link to Gary's version with larger hall)

    I’ve been pretty busy and haven’t stopped by for a while. Anyway, below is a link to part of what made me so busy – the link goes to the (almost) complete first movement of St. George and the Dragon.

    A few things to notice-

    I said “almost”. I’m still going to go back in, clean up performances, improve dynamics, change some parts, maybe change whole sections, etc.

    I also said “first movement”. I have at least some material written for three more movements. One reason I point this out is because of the title – most people are looking for a climatic battle between good and evil. If one happens, it will be in the fourth movement.

    This is my first attempt at orchestration. You can most likely tell. I used this to do some experimentation. If you wonder why I used a weird combination, now you know.

    As a first orchestration I am looking more for composition and arrangement, not performance or recording (at least not at this point).

    Anyway, any comments (or kicks in the shin for being foolish enough to attempt something like this for a first try) are welcome and appreciated.

    http://trentsworld.com/music/posting...-6-14-2004.mp3

    Later in the thread Gary posted a link to version where he ran it through a reverb with a 1400 seat hall - here is a link near the top -
    http://www.garritan.com/mp3/trent-st-george.mp3

    St. George and the Dragon Copyright Trent McDonald 2004. Recorded with GPO

  2. #2
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    Re: Finally Finished (sort of)

    Quote Originally Posted by trentpmcd

    any comments (or kicks in the shin for being foolish enough to attempt something like this for a first try) are welcome and appreciated.
    Trent,

    Thanks for posting the first movement of "St. George and the Dragon." I was wondering where you'd been and remember your first version in April.
    This is quite a project and I appreciate your sharing it with us as it has progressed along the way.

    IMHO I don't think you need to change any parts or sections.
    I like the way you develop your themes, your instrumentation and especially those atonal string tabs at about 5:20. There's always some final polishing that could be done.

    When you are finally finally finished I hope I could put this on the GPO demo page. It is hard to believe this is your first attempt at orchestration. You don't deserve a kicks in the shin but rather a medal.

    Gary Garritan

  3. #3

    Re: Finally Finished (sort of)

    I agree with Garry on the whole line. I find your piece managed very much. I think too that your composition does not need any modifications. But I would propose that you use resonance a little bit. That would create more three-dimensional sound.

    Greeting,

    Blackster

  4. #4
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    Re: Finally Finished (sort of)

    Gary, thanks for the comments. One of the parts I had the most fun doing was the recapitulation, where I swapped strings and winds, particularly the violins you are talking about – the first time I used the winds for bell tones. At 5:22 the violins sound more like someone being stabbed with icicles. Anyway, I’d be honored to have this posted on the demo page.

    Blackster, thanks for the comments. By “resonance” do you mean more reverb? Perhaps some type of convolution reverb, like SIR?

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    Re: Finally Finished (sort of)

    Impressive piece Trent. Keep it up!

    Frank

  6. #6

    Re: Finally Finished (sort of)

    Yes, I mean reverb. Cause by using more reverb you will create a more three-dimensional room. That will sound more impressive.

  7. #7
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    Re: Finally Finished (sort of)

    Trent,

    If that is your first attempt then all I can say is WOW! You've got a good amount of natural ability.

    Only minimal kicks to the shin. I think there are a couple of places where I would use another color instead of low brass. I think you would like the end result more when you hear it with human players. Sorry I can't give the exact spots - the demos load into my browser via Quicktime and there is no time reference.

    There are also some spots where a live orchestra will be a bit out of balance and some of your colors will get hidden. But again, not too many places.

    There are some really great moments in there. I also like the way you handle dissonance. Really awesome first attempt. I hope you study with someone?
    -Chad

  8. #8

    Re: Finally Finished (sort of)

    Trent,

    I really like what you've done with this since the first excerpt. There is a definite medieval flavor in spots. Oddly enough, I also hear a consistent Copland influence, which actually works quite well in this setting.

    Are you trying to paint something particular in this movement (in a sub-title sense), or are you setting the mood for the follow-on movements? Either way is fine, I'm just curious.

    The momentum and flow is excellent throughout. The rate of change in orchestration and registration is most appropriate and very engaging. I think we'd both be surprised how well this sounds played by a live orchestra.

    A moderate broadening in tempo to the end, from say 7:19 on, might be considered.

    Excellent effort and I look forward to the rest of the suite, should you decide to post it.

  9. #9

    Re: Finally Finished (sort of)

    This is very ambitious project for a first attempt! You remind me of when I was a young lad: start big and get bigger. You've done an excellent job with the performances and the orchestration. It will be great to hear the completed work.

  10. #10
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    Re: Finally Finished (sort of)

    Hardy, thanks for listening and for the comments.

    Blackster, I thought that’s what you meant, just wanted to be sure. I never know how much reverb to add so usually don’t add enough. I’ll work on this as I get closer to a final mix.

    Chad, thanks for the comments. I have been playing with synthesizers for a while, but never anything like this. I’ve never tried to make anything that would be playable for a live ensemble. I’ve also never gone beyond a dozen or so midi tracks (I have 67 tracks for this). So I’m not totally new at writing or playing with different sonic colors, just new at real orchestration and writing on this scale.

    I can think of a few places I went pretty heavy on the lower brass. Do you think the sound would be too “fat” and not crisp enough? I’ll listen and think of alternatives. As far as places were balance might out with a live orchestra, I’m assuming the brass would over power more in real life?

    Currently I’m studying with a handful of books but no living person. I also signed up for the string course that Peter Alexander is offering, though I haven't had time to work on it yet.

    Thanks again for all of the comments.

    Darwin, thanks for listening and for the comments. I used church modes throughout to try to get a more medieval feel, yet I also wanted this to be more modern sounding (20th century if not 21st). I wasn’t thinking Copland in particular, though I’m sure he has influenced me. I tried to listen to everything as I was working on this but may have leaned towards Prokofiev.

    There are a few places I’m not too sure about the flow, particularly between sections, so I am glad you feel it builds smoothly. As I reached the end (around 7:25) I slowed it a little. I’ll try starting earlier and slowing more.

    Thanks again for the comments.

    jmc, thanks for the comments. Unfortunately, though I’m just starting with this type of music, I’m not a young lad any more. But I feel young at heart, so I guess that’s what counts.

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