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Topic: Groove Agent

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  1. #1

    Groove Agent

    What a shame they never continued to develop this product. I think that version 1 was excellent but there is so much more potential to be unlocked. According to the developer's forum, they have no desire to do any more work on it.

    Steve

  2. #2

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by sjduck
    What a shame they never continued to develop this product. I think that version 1 was excellent but there is so much more potential to be unlocked. According to the developer's forum, they have no desire to do any more work on it.Steve
    Totally agree. Groove Agent potential for developpment is tremendous.
    I wasn't aware that they had decided to stop upgrading it!
    That's Steinberg product support for you. Remember XPhraze and a whole bunch of other VSTIs that have had no updates in years?

    Grove Agent came out less than a year ago and it is already dumped.
    What a dumb move. Maybe sales were not as expected with version 1.0 but I could see how, with a little bit of a vision this could have become a killer application.
    Get top drummers to record what they are famous for and cover all styles little by little. Soon enough we'd have an amazing ressource of loops, fills, patterns with great sound and great playing.
    XPhraze has great potential too and we were promised new loop banks a while back. Hasn't happened...

    This really confirms that one'd better think twice before buying a VSTI from Steinberg.You might end up with a still born (dead at birth)

  3. #3

    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by P de Caumette
    Totally agree. Groove Agent potential for developpment is tremendous.
    I wasn't aware that they had decided to stop upgrading it!
    That's Steinberg product support for you. Remember XPhraze and a whole bunch of other VSTIs that have had no updates in years?
    Actually XPhraze has version 1.2 out in terminal beta, but it ROCKS! I'm assuming that Steinberg will put an installer wrapper around it once they get all of their in-house stuff done. I'm not really concerned, as I've got the beta and it works for me. Wizoo is supposed to be working on some Xpansions for XPhraze (like they're doing for Hypersonic) but no sight of them yet. Again, it's not a concern to me as I like to program my own sounds (and XPhraze let's you import your own samples to map out and use as part of a phraze) but all signs are that development continues.

    From my very limited understanding, Groove Agent (like XPhraze) was set up in a partnership between Wizoo and independent developers, with Steinberg managing projects and handling distribution. The business and personal relationships there are complex (and have changed somewhat since Pinnacle acquired Steinberg), and leads to things like we see where there's not much interest among all parties to continue. Besides, Groove Agent was designed to be future-proof to the degree that you can take a part and extract it to MIDI and then use your own drum sounds. That's what I'm doing this weekend with a piece I just remixed. I'm extracting the drum part to MIDI, and then putting each drum on its own track and replacing each instrument with SCARBEE Imperial Drums.

    It is a little dissapointing to see things like Groove Agent not receive on-going development - or at least the same team putting their heads together to develop even more innovative music tools. But these instruments really stand on their own and are amazingly flexible. I've barely scratched the surface of what these plugs can do - perhaps after I've milked them for all their worth to me I'll start complaining. That should be in about 10 years...
    Houston Haynes - Titan Line Music

  4. #4
    Nearly all the 'in partnership with Steinberg' VSTi's have gone the same way, with very little development once released (you'll get bug fixes in most cases, but that's about it). Virtual Guitarist, Virtual Guitarist Electric Edition, The Grand, Halion String Edition, and now it seems Groove Agent have all gone the same way in that regard.

    In contrast, products like SX, Wavelab and Halion have had excellent development over the past year in my opinion.

    Vstack is a bit of a strange one. There have been reports of the 'losing midi' problem for ages, and even now this hasn't been resolved. I can understand people's frustration.

    Basically, you have to be careful which product you buy and why (as with any purchase I guess). Many people may have bought Virtual Guitarist thinking 'now that's got potential' not realising that in fact, they had a completed, never to be expanded product.

    As far as Groove Agent goes (I don't have it by the way), you could consider looking into something like Drumtrax. It's a collection of midi files for drumkit and additional percussion. They are top quality stuff, and you can learn a lot about programming your own drums grooves from them. Once you've got that skill, you're good to go with whatever sampler and samples (or synth) takes your fancy. You get a massive amount of material for the price. Take a look.............


    http://www.drumtrax.com/

    Steve

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Rees
    As far as Groove Agent goes (I don't have it by the way), you could consider looking into something like Drumtrax. It's a collection of midi files for drumkit and additional percussion. They are top quality stuff, and you can learn a lot about programming your own drums grooves from them. Once you've got that skill, you're good to go with whatever sampler and samples (or synth) takes your fancy. You get a massive amount of material for the price. Take a look.............
    http://www.drumtrax.com/
    Steve
    Thanks for the link Steve, I'll definetely look into it.

    I actually decided to get BFD, just checked out the video. It looks great.

    As far as Groove Agent is concerned, 1.0 was just a beginning, lots of styles missing (if i remember correctly, not even one ballad) and would have been great with more styles to come.
    Won't happen.
    Life goes on

  6. #6

    Question Re: Groove Agent

    Quote Originally Posted by P de Caumette
    Thanks for the link Steve, I'll definetely look into it.

    I actually decided to get BFD, just checked out the video. It looks great.

    As far as Groove Agent is concerned, 1.0 was just a beginning, lots of styles missing (if i remember correctly, not even one ballad)
    I remember someone saying the Modern Soul style did a good job - as well as the Slick, Arena, and LA Shuffle styles being able to cover some of that material. Try changing or muting some of the instruments as well as adjusting the range of tempos and you'd be surprised what you'll get from Groove Agent. But in the end it's still a shame that things coudn't go further - like a famous rock band that broke up over something dumb like creative differences or money.
    Houston Haynes - Titan Line Music

  7. #7

    Re: Groove Agent

    I still sat Groove Agent is one of the most innovative and coolest products to come along in while. I've got midi loops, slicey drummer, audio loops, drumtrax, and a few other items, but nothing comes close to GA for plug and play ease of use. The loops have such nice "real drummer" feel to them. Tracks with GA have a great live feel to them.

    There are some buried treasures in GA. The complexity slider actually calls up quite a variation of patterns on some styles. The term "complexity" is a misnomer in many cases, because it actually calls up a whole new and different pattern. If you spend some time checking out all the complexities on all the styles, you'll probably discover some things that are not apparant on the surface.

    Also, be sure and use the unlink buttons.

    They didn't quite finish the product, AFAIC. The vst automation is broken. Shame, because that's one of the coolest ways to use the product. As it stands now, you have to use trigger notes to make changes happen, which is workable, but it would be so much easier to have automation take care of program changes and such.

    Having said all that, I have to agree that more styles, and some basic maintenance would be welcome. My dream would be a Groove Agent dedicated to certain styles. A whole Groove Agent for Rock, another for jazz, another for country.

    Hey, I can dream, can't I?

  8. #8

    Re: Groove Agent

    Quote Originally Posted by sjduck
    What a shame they never continued to develop this product. I think that version 1 was excellent but there is so much more potential to be unlocked. According to the developer's forum, they have no desire to do any more work on it.

    Steve
    Glad that you like it! I worked together with Sven Bornemark on the actual samples for that one!
    Now, I'm not in on this, but I've heard rumours that Sven has gone into the studio again, and I know that it's drums that's been recorded, so there might be an update, but again, I've got no "inside info".
    What I do know, is that SampleTekk going to be releasing at least two of the sets as extensive sample-CD's. The kits used for the 50's and 60's set.
    There where soooo much more samples from that session than used in GA, and the samples have been totally re-edited from scratch.
    Worra
    SampleTekk

    Arf, arf, arf...

  9. #9

    Question Re: Groove Agent

    Quote Originally Posted by sporter
    They didn't quite finish the product, AFAIC. The vst automation is broken. Shame, because that's one of the coolest ways to use the product.
    I use the VST automation for the standard on/off and fill triggers, as well as recording and playing back pattern changes. So far it all works for me. I'd be curious to know what doesn't work WRT VST - everything I've seen points more to host/wrapper integration.

    The thing that I saw that still leaves me scratching my head is the slip in MIDI timing. It seems to be somewhat ASIO-buffer-dependent, but for my money I simply watch how things are set up before I push the notes to a MIDI track and tweak from there.
    Houston Haynes - Titan Line Music

  10. #10

    Re: Groove Agent

    Hi guys,

    the designer of Groove Agent here with a message: Don't be so pessimistic
    I'm not saying that there will be a new version, but you never know. After all, it wasn't all that long ago that Groove Agent was released and although there's always room for improvement (as with anything), I think it stands pretty strong "as is". I use it almost every day for composing, as I even did long before it was released, and it still does the job as intended. I still don't miss any new styles - I always get what I need by using the complexity slider, shuffle, half tempo and even combining several GA's. Currently I'm using GA a lot to play DFH Superior - awesome combination!

    If you take a look at other software based instruments, there are some that are almost never updated because they were right on target from the start, like Native Instruments FM7 and B4. Others, like Kontakt are updated because the need improvements on a different level, compatibility, engine improvements and such.
    If there's going to be a new version of GA, there has to be really good ideas for improvement to motivate all the work that is involved in a new version and also the cost of an upgrade. The creator Sven Bornemark and I do have a lot of ideas, but we are also very happy with GA as it is. Our goal really was to provide a finished instrument, not a half-baked something that could be useful someday.
    But we'll see what happens in the future...

    Also, the statement that nothing has happened with GA is not true. I made Groove Agent SE (light version) not too long ago

    Houston, a little tip: You can hook GA up right away with your sample player instead of creating MIDI tracks first. Just set GA as input and the sample player as output on your MIDI track. That way, you can make adjustments in real-time, and when you're done just record the tracks. You can even use external hardware drum machines, synths or samplers with GA this way.
    Also, if you unload the Drum slots on GA when working like this, GA uses very little CPU resources because all it does is play MIDI data and display a GUI.

    Cheers,
    Wirebird

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