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Topic: GPO Lush Violins

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  1. #1

    GPO Lush Violins

    I recently bought GPO and generally like it. The French Horns are great with ffoverlay.

    The Violin ensembles - these sound flat to me, especially around C4 (C above middle C). The Violas do too, but the cellos are fine.

    i really hesitate to mention this - I did a search and couldn\'t find anyone else raising it.

    Running the strins through a tuner plugin tends to confirm what my ears tell me.

    Anyone?

  2. #2
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    Re: GPO Violins - flat?

    ffg,

    Could you be more specific as to what patch? The Lush patches have wide and pronounced. vibrato and this could be what you are hearing. Try the sustain + short patches.

    First make sure you have the latest version of the Kontakt Player. There was some program regression in the first version where some tuning values were lost. So make sure you have the latest.

    Also check to see if your soundcard is set to 16bit/44.1 khz. In the soundcard is set to a different rate, this can cause pitch issues.

    If anyone notices any tuning anomalies, let us know. We are in beta for the next updated player and can make any adjustments if necessary.

    Gary Garritan

  3. #3

    Re: GPO Violins - flat?

    Wow - I am seriously impressed.

    Not only a reply within minutes, but from Mr Garritan himself!! Thank you.

    I\'ve just been into the studio to check my suspicions.

    First, I\'m running Kontakt 1.0.2.008, on Panther 10.3.3 on a 1gig G4 Quicksilver.

    The clock is at 44.1, based on my MOTU PCI-424 card.

    ALL the violin ensembles show some degree of flat pitch, but the most noticeable is the Lush Violins patch (perhaps because they are brighter) between A3 and A4. There is a noticeable drop in pitch and volume just after the initial attack ( the initial attack sounds fairly accurate). To be honest, the quality of these samples does not sound up to the standard of the rest of GPO.

    i checked the pitch with the Tunifier plug, and with Autotune v3. Both showed a degree of flatness between A3 - A4. Autotune corrected the pitch showing about 20 cents correction.

    The drop in pitch sounds like an inherent part of the samples, but this seems unlikely to me because I can\'t believe it would not have been noticed earlier. Is it possible that this version of Kontakt is messing with the pitch?

    Thanks for your help with this.

    david

  4. #4

    Re: GPO Violins - flat?

    I too have found that many of the strings are considerably under pitch compared to others. In my first song that I just completed, I used the \"master tune\" of the Kontakt player to increase pitch 15.6 cents for these instruments...... vlns 1 lush mutes, vlns 1 lush, vlns 1 tremelo, vlns 2 lush mutes, vlns 2 lush, vlns 2 sus+short mutes, vlns 2 sus+short, vlns 2 tremelo, cellos lush, cellos lush mutes, and Basses tremelo. The cello trills W needs to be pitched down 9.4 on the \"master tune\"

    I simply altered the pitch of these instruments so that they would match a recording on a CD that previously matched my tuner. Now don\'t give up yet..., it would seem obvious that I was trying to match a CD that was \"out of tune\" from the beginning, or maybe my tuner was no good, but nope. I tune pianos also, and my tuner is in perfect harmony with my pitchfork that is \"C\" 523.2 hz.

    After altering the pitch of these previously listed instruments, they blended beautifullly with the following samples WITHOUT alteration of pitch..... Steinway piano, Violas, Violas tremelo, viola short bows, Basses lush, Basses lush mutes, flute solo w/vibrato, tuba and harp glissandos.
    In my humble opinion, there is a certain amount of time that passes BEFORE certain instruments\' pitch \"locks on\". I feel that the shorter amount of time that elapses is better, certainly if the notes are stacotto, in which case many of the notes will never be in tune. Again, this is just my opinion. I am amazed at the amount of people that use midi equipment and don\'t use a sequencer of some kind to correct all these things that make or break the piece for critical listeners. Some like rock and some like classical, there really is no right or wrong when it comes to taste in music styles, but pitch on the other hand is not something that is subjectionable, it can be proven. I\'m done rambling, [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] sorry for the lengthy post.
    I still love GPO and can\'t wait to be able to upgrade to GOS with a Kontakt version. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

  5. #5
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    Re: GPO Violins - flat?

    ffg and DPDan

    Thanks for bringing this to our attention. There have been some tuning revisions in the latest players in certain patches.

    When we first came out with GOS users wanted a choice of vibrato. Some thought the vibrato was not wide enough, so we provided the Hollywood Strings (or lush vibrato). The Lush Vibrato has the widest tuning variation since the patch involves instruments playing a wide vibrato. When playing a wide vibrato the pitch varies considerably due to the intensity and width of the vibrato. While the effect is nice, some prefer a less intense vibrato. There is a choice. The Sustain and Short Patches have a narrower vibrato and do not deviate from the pitch as much.

    Gary Garritan

  6. #6

    Re: GPO Violins - flat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garritan
    ffg and DPDan

    Thanks for bringing this to our attention. There have been some tuning revisions in the latest players in certain patches.

    When we first came out with GOS users wanted a choice of vibrato. Some thought the vibrato was not wide enough, so we provided the Hollywood Strings (or lush vibrato). The Lush Vibrato has the widest tuning variation since the patch involves instruments playing a wide vibrato. When playing a wide vibrato the pitch varies considerably due to the intensity and width of the vibrato. While the effect is nice, some prefer a less intense vibrato. There is a choice. The Sustain and Short Patches have a narrower vibrato and do not deviate from the pitch as much.

    Gary Garritan
    Thanks for this response, Gary.

    i do have the latest version of the Kontakt player.

    Mmmm, I'm not entirely convinced about the wide vibrato argument. To me, the Lush violins in particular start at correct pitch, then drop distinctly in pitch before settling. This is not really a vibrato artifact. May I send you an mp3 to show what I mean?

    thanks

    david

  7. #7
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    Re: GPO Violins - flat?

    Hey Gary,

    I too noticed this problem with the Violin 1 Lush patch:

    The initial attack seems to be on pitch (tuned 440Hz) but then the sustained part of the sound seems to be at a lower pitch (?) This is more obvious in the higher register of the patch. To my ears it sounds like there are 2 different samples (one for the attack and one for the sustain) that are somehow combine but the pitch of the sustained part does not seem to match the pitch of the attack (?)

    This is more noticeable with a hard attack, you can easily hear the sudden drop in pitch after the initial attack. I find that drop not quite natural

    I also find that some notes of the Violin 1 Lush patch seem to sound flat or sharp (?) was that a choice made in order to get a particular sound ?

    It seemed to get worse when I tried to tune that Violin 1 Lush patch to match the tuning of a recording I was playing along with (maybe the Kontakt tuning issue) I'm currently using GPO Studio in Cubasis and my Kontakt Player version is 1.0.2.008.

    By the way, if I update the Kontak Player for the latest version, will it affect both Players (the one for Stand Alone use and the one in GPO Studio) or are they 2 separate players that have there own updates ???


    Finaly, about the upcoming GPO update: is it to late Gary to report some little "bugs" in some of the patches ? (for example the clic sound on the Trombone Overlay that has been reported a while ago in the forum) there are a few that I found here and there and I wonder if this could be fix for the next update ???

    Let me know and I'll send you a list,

    Keep up the good work and LONG LIVE THE GPO REVOLUTION !!!

    NDEE

  8. #8

    Re: GPO Lush Violins

    NDEE

    I believe your version of the Kontakt player is the latest one. I checked yesterday, no new version since April.

    Seems I am not alone in noticing the pitch problem in some patcehes, especially Lush Violins around C4.

    thanks

    david

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