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Topic: Harp Help (Midi Files)

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  1. #1

    Harp Help (Midi Files)

    So, as a new user, I have been playing around with this program, and really enjoying it. Found some workarounds to some early problems (panning instruments that have the annoying \"click\" to center, only working in 16 bit sessions, and using aux track rather than audio seemed to solve alot of early problems)

    One thing that crashes my computer though is the harps. Even the dry, lite version causes GPO to crash when I do glissando\'s.

    It freezes and then sits there and clicks forever. I have to quit the session and re-open it.

    So, I have a decent sounding harp on my Roland XV5080. Can I use the GPO Harp Midi files for my Roland? I tried importing the midi files in the GPO folder into a session, but it gave me about 20 new midi tracks and there was no midi data in the tracks.

    Any ideas?

  2. #2

    Re: Harp Help (Midi Files)

    I\'ve never used any Roland products so I can\'t help you out there, I\'d beinterested in knowing which sequencer you are using that GPO is freezing with?

  3. #3

    Re: Harp Help (Midi Files)

    Hi Alan:

    In my signature, I specify I am using Pro Tools on Mac. I am using the program RTAS.

    Basically I am wondering if the Midi Files included with GPO are standard Midi files, which would allow you to import them into any sequencer.

    I was not able to import them into Pro Tools, and was wondering why.

    Midi files of Harp glissandos would be great as this is pretty hard to duplicate from a keyboard, unless you are in the key of C as any idiot can run their fingers up and down the white keys. (and I am an idiot)

    A workaround would be just to transpose some key of C glisses from the white keys into any key (very easy) but still it would be neat ot have some that are replications of a real harpist (which I am not)

    Also, minor keyed glissandos are hard to do on a keyboard.

    Paul

  4. #4

    Re: Harp Help (Midi Files)

    Duba

    There has been a lot written on the topic of glissando harp midi data packets (including what, exactly, they are!). They are not midi data, in that you load it onto your harp track and it plays back anything. They are \'data packets\' that map notes of your keyboard (only the white keys) to specific harp notes, so when you perform glissandi on your keyboard it will sound like the real thing. The reason this sounds more realistic is that when you glissando on a regular harp from, say, C4 to C5, you do not go C D E F G A B C. Due to the tuning of the harp some notes are doubled, so you might play something like C C E F G A C C. The actual notes in my example are likely wrong as I do not play the harp and do not feel like finding Adler\'s book to figure out which notes would be double! hehe, but that is the case. And it\'s the different timbre of each string that plays a unison interval (like the \"C C\"s in my example) that gives the harp it\'s unique sound when performing glissandos.

    That said, you really should not be using ProTools to sequence midi data. There are far better programs out there. I use Sonar 3 and love it. The midi capabilities within are awesome. I\'ve tried Cubase once (at my friend\'s house), but was too used to Sonar to get into it. And supposedly, a lot of the big dogs use Logic. I remember opening that up and being very confused! hehe, there\'s also the bundled Overture SE which comes with GPO. If you\'re a notater, you could try Sibelius or Finale, as they seem to be the big notation programs. (Overture is a notation program as well).

    I hope this helps.

    - Junk

  5. #5
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    Re: Harp Help (Midi Files)

    The harp packets should be able to open in any sequencer that reads MIDI files. I doubt that the harp packets will work as well in your Roland. The glissando harp packets were programmed specifically for the glissando harp patches and will work best with the GPO Glissando Harp 1 (the Venus Concert Harp) and Glissando Harp 2 (the Wurlitzer Concert Harp).

    Junkmonkey is correct in that the files are MIDI data (or instructions). They allow the white keys of the keyboard to emulate the open and stopped strings on the harp with with various harp pedal positions. Running you finger up and down the keyboard will be like running your finger up and down the strings of a harp.
    ProTools is renown for its audio capabilities and is the standard in that regard. It\'s sequencing capabilities do not match its audio capabilities and that is why many ProTools users opt for using Digital Performer of Logic as a front-end to their ProTools rigs.

    Nevertheless, you should be getting better results. I will contact Digidesign and inquire into this issue and see if they have any suggestions.

    Gary Garritan

  6. #6

    Re: Harp Help (Midi Files)


    The search engine on this website leaves something to be desired. I did a search and came up with nothing. My key words were harp & midi....?!

    sing the midi files would be great. I would love to get at them to use on my synths. As I mentioned the GPO crashes when I try to gliss.

    What would I gain from using Sonar over Pro Tools? I mostly play real time most of my parts. It gives it an added realism. If you program everything it sounds.....well...programmed.

    I just today recieved Finale 2004 (upgrade from 2000) but still, unless there is something new about this version, you cant take advantage of the sustain pedal (up and down bow strokes) nor the mod wheel which both add realism to the sound of the GPO instruments.

    Please enlighten me though, I have only been using GPO for a week. I\'d love to know how to get the most out of it. I do feel the need to use it RTAS, as I rely on sounds from other sources (synths, Reason, Spectrasonics and my EMU sampler)

    Does Sonar work for Mac? Have been looking at Logic for quite a while. Might give it a try but I would like to know what I would be gaining over Pro Tools.

    Thanks for the reply.

  7. #7

    Re: Harp Help (Midi Files)

    Duba

    [ QUOTE ]
    The search engine on this website leaves something to be desired

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Make sure you delete the pesky 1 in the \"Newer than\" box in the Date Range column. In the \"forums to search\" dialogue, select Garritan Orchestral Libraries, and in the \"Keyword Search Items,\" type \"Glissando Harp.\" You should get plenty of information.

    [ QUOTE ]
    What would I gain from using Sonar over Pro Tools?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    What you gain is more control over your midi data. You save a lot of time when you are able to edit your midi. You could edit so many things from note-ons/offs, to any of the control changes you may be using, to pitch, velocity, pitchwheel, etc. Aside from that, \"programming\" (to use your word) with GPO is probably more efficient. Sequencing is just composing - you are writing music, not playing it. With GPO, it\'s great because you can write out your parts, totally robot-sounding and \'stiff.\' Then you go back over your track while recording modwheel movements from a keyboard to add some life, then maybe run a simple CAL program (in Sonar) to adjust the start times by a random number of ticks on a specified interval (you can do this in Cubase and Logic too, I believe). This saves you from having to rely on an instrument to write (a bad habit that too many people, myself included, fall into when starting out).

    Also, be sure to understand the difference between notaters and sequencers. Finale is a notater. It is made for people who are accustomed to \'writing notes on a staff.\' It has lots of funtionality in that regard but severely lacks in the sequencing department. It\'s very difficult to control cresendos, dynamics, tempo, etc.

    Just mess around with a sequencer, I\'m sure you could find a demo of Sonar, Cubase, or Logic from their respective websites. They are really powerful tools, I cannot imagine writing without them!

    Goodluck on your glissando harp questions, the info is there - just gotta search for it.

    - Junk

  8. #8

    Re: Harp Help (Midi Files)

    [ QUOTE ]
    What you gain is more control over your midi data. You save a lot of time when you are able to edit your midi. You could edit so many things from note-ons/offs, to any of the control changes you may be using, to pitch, velocity, pitchwheel, etc.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You can do all this in Pro Tools too. The newer version of PT are much better with Midi, though still not as good as Digital Performer, but you can do all of the stuff you mentioned.



    [ QUOTE ]
    Also, be sure to understand the difference between notaters and sequencers. Finale is a notater.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I use Finale 2000 to compose my wind band compositions. I use Pro Tools for Studio Recorded commercial music. In Finale 2000 you could not contol volume, sustain, pitch data. It was VERY sterile sounding, but is the program I use for large ensemble pieces that are played live. Maybe Finale 2004 is different. Just got it yesterday and have not had time to experiment.

    I use Mac. Sonar and Cubase are PC only.

    Thanks for the input Junk!

  9. #9

    Re: Harp Help (Midi Files)

    [ QUOTE ]

    What would I gain from using Sonar over Pro Tools? I mostly play real time most of my parts. It gives it an added realism. If you program everything it sounds.....well...programmed.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    That’s the whole idea of the harp packets. They let you play them in real time. Gary, please correct me if I’m wrong (Gary is a superb harpist), let’s say you want to play a glissando that rises 2 octaves then falls back to it’s beginning pitch, you might want to speed up a little as you reach the higher notes, then slow down slightly as you fall back down, or you could do the opposite, depending on the effect and mood you are after. These are things you feel, rather than think through.

    By using the data packet let’s say for a whole-tone scale, and setting that packet right before you want the gliss to occur (I use a separate track set to the same midi channel as your actual harp data), then recording the passage on your harp track by running your finger up and down the white keys of your keyboard, you well be playing a beautiful whole-tone gliss and most likely if you close your eyes and pretend you are a real harp player, you will naturally speed up a little on the rise and slow down on the fall. You aren’t programming anything. You are playing in live, and no manner of programming can duplicate this subtle effect.

    Not only that, but as junckmonkey stated above, you have those doublings of notes caused by the pedal settings that if you weren’t a harpist or did not study the pedal settings of harps, it would be impossible to know the exact notes to sequence for the most realistic representation.

    As an aside, the really fine keyboard players I have known, and I’m not one of them, have always told me that you have to climb out of the shoes of a piano player, and into the shoes of the instrumentalist you’re trying to emulate, if you are going to be convincing. The main reason I love GPO is that it lets you do this with a minimum of effort. The harp packets are one of these features. So little stands between you and the music you are playing.

    The first thing I might say, being a Mac guy, is to max out your ram to 2 gig. When I did this a host of problems went away. I don’t use PT, so can’t relate to the specific problem you are having, but with DP, on a single cpu G4, I have no problems even with the “heavy, more filling” harp patches.

    Hope you get your problems solved and you’re running smooth real soon.

  10. #10

    Re: Harp Help (Midi Files)

    I love these harp packages. Was really a good idea. Would be although nice if there would be several packages according to the several keys. It\'s a little bit clumsy to import the whole package into the song. Or is there another way to cope with that?

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