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Topic: W. A. Mozart: Piano Sonata KV497 I. Allegro - for Orchestra

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  1. #1
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    W. A. Mozart: Piano Sonata KV497 I. Allegro - for Orchestra

    One of the most ingenious works of Mozart for piano is the Allegro of the sonata for 4 hands in F-major KV 497. My concert guide speaks of the "symphonic" charakter of this marvellous movement. Especially outstanding is the development section. So I tried to create a symphonic orchestration of this Allegro. In the original there is a slow introduction but which is very "piano" orientated so I just did the Allegro.

    http://www.gerdprengel.de/Mozart_Pia...497-1_orch.mp3

    Gerd

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    Re: W. A. Mozart: Piano Sonata KV497 I. Allegro - for Orchestra

    Hello Gerd:

    Of course you did a marvelous job, Wolfgang would have approved.
    I think He would also hit the wood section with his bow, to get their volume lower. Some places, the flute or the bassoon should be leading, but over all, they are overwhelming the strings almost all the time, which, He being a violinist himself, would have objected to.
    As your work stands now, it sounds if I would be sitting in the wood section and do not hear anything else.
    If you would look at our conversation on Bartok just ahead of your posting, you will see that both Reinhold and me agree that when you working on a piece, especially as complex as Bartok or Mozart, you will become def and hear the piece as you imagine it, not as other, with fresh, not tired ears will hear it.
    You did such a great job that I had to comment on it, please take it in the spirit of my sincere wish that you'll make it better.
    Thanks for posting it,

    Ted

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    Re: W. A. Mozart: Piano Sonata KV497 I. Allegro - for Orchestra

    Dear Ted, thank you for your hint. I am just too much in love with woodwinds, especially regarding Mozart's works. I reduced now the woodwinds by more than 15 % and increased the first violins. I think it is better now, maybe the timpani still are a bit too loud ;-)

    Gerd

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    Senior Member tedvanya's Avatar
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    Re: W. A. Mozart: Piano Sonata KV497 I. Allegro - for Orchestra

    Much,much better!
    I would take an other 15% increase for all strings, then would cut back on all woods. Then, you should be governed by your love of the woods and increase volumes for them where you wish to show them offs.
    After all this, re-normalize the project. But, as it is now, it is delightful without doing any of my suggestions.

    Ted

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    Re: W. A. Mozart: Piano Sonata KV497 I. Allegro - for Orchestra

    Dear Ted, I further reduced the woods, and I think it is ok now. But what do you mean by "re-normalise the project"?

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    Re: W. A. Mozart: Piano Sonata KV497 I. Allegro - for Orchestra

    Happy Easter Gerd:

    It is difficult to comment without knowing what equipment you are using.
    If you are using an editor for your audio, like Audacity (a free program, very good but basic), or if you are using a sequencer like Sonar, both would have a program to Normalize your project, meaning that you can set the maximum volume you would like, say -2 db, and the project will be set so, that the loudest volume will be -2 db and everything will be proportionally the same as the original was. This is very useful to make sure you are not too low in your final volume and that you are not clipping at high volume.
    When I suggested to reduce the woods, then increase the strings, you would have had your piece at too low volume overall. Normalization will lift the whole project to the set maximum db.
    You are on your way to make this better, but still, I can't hear the strings. I do understand that you love the woods, so do I. Probably because of this, you used them too much. Of course, this is your project, and it is your decision how you divide the piano score among the instruments. Maybe it would help to copy some parts of the flute into Violin 1, (or solo violin) together they sound very nice? But cutting back on the bassoon especially, would help. I like the bassoon you have, but it is just too much. Some of the tutti's should include strings, it will sound better if you reduce the woods at the same time in those places.
    Now I will shut up, and admit that you did a great job and I don't mind if you ignore my rambling

    Ted

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    Re: W. A. Mozart: Piano Sonata KV497 I. Allegro - for Orchestra

    Ted, I know it is embarrassing for me, but you know what - I have had the celli/bass on "mute" and didn't realise it ! This explains why the bassoon were so dominant ....

    Thank you for this helpful hint regarding the "normalization" ...

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    Senior Member tedvanya's Avatar
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    Re: W. A. Mozart: Piano Sonata KV497 I. Allegro - for Orchestra

    No need to be embarrassed. We all do things like this. I like your arrangement now, very much.

    Ted

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    Re: W. A. Mozart: Piano Sonata KV497 I. Allegro - for Orchestra

    I reworked on my orchestration of this wonderful Mozart piano sonata for 4 hands which I originally orchestrated a few years ago. Maybe you listen to it again :-)

  10. #10

    Re: W. A. Mozart: Piano Sonata KV497 I. Allegro - for Orchestra

    Hi Gerd,

    Again you took a huge risk to 'translate' the subtle piano playing of Mozart into strings and winds. Let me first congratulate you with the very decent orchestration. It's varied, well constructed and with a beautiful sonic result (orchestral balance). I noticed that in your first version (which I didn't hear) the woods were pretty dominant, well here everything looks ok to me.
    Another matter is what I mentioned before. Since the original music was intended for piano (and with Mozart it's always light footed and full of bravoure), your strings and woods should be handled with extreme caution as to lightness and punchiness. That's what I'm missing here. (e.g. the passage for 2'58 and further) where the violins play around the theme, it sounds like a huge mess: all instruments are searching for attention and that is not the fault of the orchestral setting. It's rather the strings that are too heavy and thick. They should sound very light-footed and playful here, with little volume, but with distinct phrasing. (Here I would have chosen the spiccati.) Next to that, I wonder what the function of the trumpets is. They don't really add something, except some heavy accents, supported by the timpani. I know, it's your choice and you certainly had your reasons to do so, but I can't say I like it (sounds un-Mozart-like und contradicting to the lightness of the composition).
    As a whole, it's a pretty pleasant piece to listen to. Mozart delivered as usual an excellent composition and you added a very interesting orchestral flavor to it.

    So, well done!
    Jos
    Jos Wylin

    http://www.joswyl.be compositions and sampling practices

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