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Topic: Wind ensemble, symphonic band?

  1. #1

    Wind ensemble, symphonic band?

    I need a push over the edge. I\'m thinking very seriously about GPO for my first sample library. I need sounds I can use to arrange for wind ensemble and symphonic band.(and even some brass band)
    I\'m a little concerned about GPO\'s ability to get loud and close up. I know it can be soft and sensitive. I\'ve heard the demo of Copland\'s Fanfare, and it\'s just not quite there. In an orchestra, winds(esp. brass)are more in the background.
    I suppose any libraries geared toward an orchestral setting will have this as an issue, but are there any that can approach what I\'m after?

    I use Sibelius with Win.XP (soon to upgrade to Sib. 3.1 with Kontakt Gold)


  2. #2

    Re: Wind ensemble, symphonic band?

    Originally posted by atye:
    ... I\'m thinking very seriously about GPO for my first sample library. I need sounds I can use to arrange for wind ensemble and symphonic band.(and even some brass band)
    I\'m a little concerned about GPO\'s ability to get loud and close up.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Andy,

    GPO is my first leap into samples. I\'m still learning the basic methods for getting the sound I\'m after. But what I\'ve learned is that I have a lot of control.

    For winds you can control the attack (velocity), the volume (Mod Wheel), and slurs (Sustain Pedal). Then there\'s your instrumentation. And then you\'ve got the Audio Engineering complexities.

    When I first started I was furious that the clarinet was so non-clarinet-like until I started experimenting just with the attack -- and lo! Clarinet sound extraordinaire!

    I don\'t know exactly what you mean be close up, but I believe you may be looking for a sound with very little reverb. Garritan Ambience comes with a Parlor setting that has very little reverb and sounds like you\'re up close to the instruments, and of course the concert hall settings make it sound to my ear that I\'m sitting far away from the performers.

    I\'ve experimented most with the Bassoon 2 sound and a note velocity of 127 sounds as if the recording was made 1/2 inch from the players embouchure -- now that\'s close.

    I\'m not a real musician, but I play one on the Internet.

  3. #3

    Re: Wind ensemble, symphonic band?

    Thanks Adam.

    What I need are sounds with alot of immediate but authentic front end and strong sustain for big impact chords. I already know GPO can do the sensitive stuff.

    I checked out your site. I\'m happy to hear someone going in a different direction with their approach to the use of a library. Your stuff has given me more hope that this is the starter lib. for me.

    BTW, we live only an hour or so from one another! (I\'m on the Wisconsin side)

    Thanks again....

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Chandler, Arizona

    Re: Wind ensemble, symphonic band?

    GPO should really work quite well for wind ensembles and symphonic bands. The ensemble builder instruments are really ideal for this. After you use the library for awhile you may to look into SAM Horns to beef up the brass section even more.

    Because the samples were recorded dry you can choose what reverb to use. That\'s why you hear quite a variety in the GPO demos.

    At $249 you just can\'t go wrong. It\'s the only library setup to work with notation software also.

  5. #5

    Re: Wind ensemble, symphonic band?

    The brass sections in GPO come with \"overlay\" programs (forte and fortissimo). If you add one of these programs to your brass ensembles, it will give them an extra \"bite\".

  6. #6

    Re: Wind ensemble, symphonic band?

    I have been using GPO for a few weeks now, and I too have wished at times for more \'bite\' from the brass.

    I have been turning to my SAM Trombones and Horns.

    I also believe that the EW Silver has more bite.

    Now don\'t everybody jump on me at once, but even my Edirol brass has much more of this character.

    Now, having said that, I have been experimenting with the overlays and they can make a big improvement. It just takes more work to get a similar result.

    I feel that the Copland fanfare was spot on in the interpretation. So many recordings of this work were made in the past by real ensembles as some kind of \'hi-fi demo\' records and this has tainted peoples tastes regarding this and similar works.

    Add to this the recent film scores with stentorian brass blasts and you find even conductors who should know better falling back on the old \'hi-fi\' demo approach.

    The real beauty of GPO is in the degree of expression you can easily achieve by it\'s elimination of multiple dynamic layers and myriad articulations with arcane methods of switching between them. The results are MUCH smoother IMO and much more realistic than a pre-programmed \'swell\' or other.

    I believe though, that ultimately the \'layered\' approach of GPO by building up layers may be harder to pull off in some instances.

    I would like to see a \'string overlay\' too to add more bite to sections.

    (P.S.: I discussed on another thread last month here on ways to get more bite out of GPO brass)

  7. #7

    Re: Wind ensemble, symphonic band?

    Could you steer me to that thread about punchifying the brass, please? I\'d like to see if my experiments match your solutions
    I did a simple search under your name but I didn\'t see an obvious candidate and was too lazy to wade through every post. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]


  8. #8

    Re: Wind ensemble, symphonic band?

    Because of this discussion I\'ve became curious enough to run a series of tests on the trumpet instruments. You can listen to what I did here:


  9. #9

    Re: Wind ensemble, symphonic band?

    Could you steer me to that thread about punchifying the brass, please?\"

    Actually I just recap it here.

    What I do is to keep all my volume levels (cc#7) below maximum, so I have \'some place to go\' when I need to punch up the brass etc.

    The second technique which works in SONAR is to use an envelope to vary the level of an exciter plugin (I use an excellent one from Hyperprism). Basically you just want to use it for double or triple forte notes (especially effective on trombones).

    The use of the exciter is rather esoteric and may depend a great deal on the brand you use. I have had good results with the \"Spectralizer\" from Steinberg, though it is harder to control.

    All of this occurs, of course, AFTER you have rendered the part as audio in your sequencer app. of choice. I just draw in the curves controlling the send to the exciter.

    I have tried this on strings with less realistic results. Woodwinds SOMETIMES can benefit too.

    Hope this info is useful. Everyone\'s ears are different and some may not like what they hear from this technique. Again, you MUST experiment with your exciter to get good results.

    All of the above of course, might not be needed if GPO is upgraded with \'hard\' brass samples. Maybe the \"Jazz Band\" brass stuff Gary mentioned would work in an orchestral setting to add \'punch\' to certain parts. We\'ll see.....

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