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Topic: Why is Cakewalk the only sequencer 'comfortably' running audio with Gigga?

  1. #1

    Why is Cakewalk the only sequencer \'comfortably\' running audio with Gigga?

    I may be mistaken, but my overall impression from reading these forums for the last few months is that only Cakewalk users seem to be able to get audio running with GiggaX.

    Cakewalk users routinely refer to running a few tracks of audio, plugins or the capture to disk function, whereas I can\'t even have the audio section of Logic enabled when I use Gigga. Even without recording audio I\'d get ASIO errors etc.,

    Recently, Hancor posted to the forum that, after a lot of trial, error and modification, he managed to record from Gigga to Logic. It certainly didn\'t read like anyone could do that out of the box.

    Is it simply that Logic and Cubase are bloated pigs which require more than their fair share of the CPU, whereas Cakewalk is more sleekly designed, leaving more CPU for Gigga?

    [This message has been edited by Chadwick (edited 02-16-2001).]

  2. #2

    Re: Why is Cakewalk the only sequencer \'comfortably\' running audio with Gigga?

    It is all to do with the way the drivers are written for each sound standard.

    1. Cakewalk 9.03 uses AudioX proprietary technology, these are NOT low latency drivers and hence easier to work with.

    2. Cubase VST/32 5.03PB3 uses the ASIO2 driver standard technology from Steinberg.
    These are low latency drivers requiring a stricter timing.

    3. Logic Audio Platinum 4.6.1. uses either the EASI/MME driver which is not low latency,
    or uses ASIO2 which is low latency.

    The difficulty people are experiencing \"Out of the BOX\" is the expectation that the windows OS will handle all the subroutines. The simple fact is, that it won\'t. This is why ASIO1 graduated to ASIO2 to achieve low latency in the neighbourhood of 1-15ms from about 200ms instead of the normal 450ms offered by Windows. When the timing gets tighter the OS is less able to cope/respond. This is why the Neno\'s GSFix.exe program or resetting the priority on the msg32.exe from \"realtime\" to \"high\" cuts the OS some slack to funnel the data from sampler to sequencer without breaking up. It is achieving the balance between programs LAWP and GS160 in a low latency enviornment that is the tricky part. Moreover, the driver one is using must simultaneously comply with the ASIO2 standard and the GSIF standard.

    Further to this, if you wish to be successful in doing this you need to ensure that driver, and applications are all working
    simultaneously at the same clock speed, and bit rates.

    eg. 44.1kHz, 16bit
    44.1kHz, 24bit
    48kHz, 16bit
    48KHz, 24bit

    You have to choose which of above 4 combinations suits your work enviornment. The clock speeds and bit rates you wish to work in have to be selected in the driver tab, LAWP, GS160 and be consistent; windows won\'t do this work for you.



  3. #3

    Re: Why is Cakewalk the only sequencer \'comfortably\' running audio with Gigga?


    I\'ve used GigaStudio with Voyetra\'s Digital Orchestrator Pro...on a laptop, no less.

    But...couple things to point out:

    1. I have the MIDI sequence within DOPro, then point it to GSTudio and Capture the Audio directly to wav -- I don\'t record into DOPro per se (just open up the wav in SAW later for editing)

    2. I\'ve only loaded one instrument at a time (the Gigapiano) in GStudio for this, and the sequences are fairly low-density

    3. I followed the steps laid out in the last Nemsys newletter (from the \"Kevin\'s Tech Kitchen\" section)

    I\'ve been pleasantly surpised that this is happening on an IBM Thinkpad (though a fairly good one, with PII-400, 256 MB RAM)

    hope that helps,

  4. #4

    Re: Why is Cakewalk the only sequencer \'comfortably\' running audio with Gigga?

    I\'ve had a little more time to consider why my system is able to record audio tracks from GigaStudio160 into Logic Audio Platinum.
    LAWP is a program that is highly throughput dependent. GS160 also requires dual drives with at least 512KB cache. You will note that in our setup, we have two Ultra160 SCSI drives with an onboard cache of 8MB each. Comparing your average IDE drive the difference in SRAM cache scales from SCSI to IDE respectively, 16 to 1 in ratio. In short, the bottleneck on the IDE drive structure is obviated by going to a SCSI drive set. Thus one has sufficient data pipe overhead to be able send from GS160 to LAWP without hitting a data pipe \'ceiling\'. Further, by going with the SCSI drive set you relieve your CPU from disk I/O duties, as with IDE drives, and are able to use the freed up CPU cycles to run the programs and plugins more efficiently.

    In some ways, you can think of IDE drives as equivalent to the garden hose; while audio/visual rated SCSI drives are like a 1Meter/36\"inch storm pipe. Guess which one will carry more volume of data.

    Lastly, over the past three years in getting our studio up and running don\'t underestimate the value of doing routine computer maintenence. By this I mean doing the following:

    Flash bios upgrades: 1. motherboard
    2. SCSI controller card
    3. video card
    4. CD-R

    Downloading and installing the latest drivers for all your components:

    1. chipset driver updates
    2. graphics card
    3. SCSI controller card
    4. sound card

    Last but not least: READING YOUR MANUALS.

    We all do maintenence on our vehicles to get to and from work. Why would your computer be
    so functionally different. If most computer users wanted an \"Out of the BOX\" solution, I would then presume they would be buying a closed solution like the MACs. Sales figures between MACs and PCs stand in somewhat rather stark contrast however.

    Does this sound like work? Well the answer is: Yes it is, but the work has an eventual reward. As all truly worthy pursuits in life, the ones worth having require some degree of effort.

    As one noted composer said:

    \"God tells me how the music should sound, but you stand in the way!\" - Arturo Toscannini to a trumpet player.

    Don\'t let a bad bios, hardware, driver, or buggy software get in your way.



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