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Topic: Help me love GOS more then I do!

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  1. #1

    Help me love GOS more then I do!

    Ok,

    After having the and using the GOS for more then a year, I think I know the libarary fairly well.
    Now, sometimes I love it and sometimes it dissapoints me. So from that I draw the conclussion that it\'s me and not the lib.

    There are 2 things that bother me and I\'m sure there must be a way around them.
    First the sound...too much mids and not enough wood if you know what I mean. The main problem that I have is that when expossed sections sound great, but when all 5 sections are playing it very easy becomes ver very synth like...

    I think the violas and cellos are fine, so the question would be what to do with EQ on violines and basses? I get good results with layering solo bass over bass sections, but do\'nt know what to do with violines.

    I belive this could be worked out with EQ but it would be really nice to get the new set of differently EQed samples?

    I\'ll probably try to do it myself (with batch procssing it shouldn\'t take too long) so any EQ advice, and even better the explenation of the problem would be great! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    Second....the attacks...on some patches they just sound very artificial to me. From what I can hear this was done so that we get more playable instruments, but what I\'m wondering about is are the original attacks there? Is the attack set in the editor or the samples themselves? Will I get the original attack if I put the attack on zero in the editor?
    Come to think of it it would be so cool if Giga suported real time sample start offset.

    Hope somebody has a good advice. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    Thanks,

    Alex

  2. #2

    Re: Help me love GOS more then I do!

    Hi Lex,
    Someone(I don\'t remember who) posted these eq suggestions here once before.

    EQ suggestions for GOS:
    1350 Hz -8 to -10 db
    2900 Hz -8 to -10 db

    If you want to hear the wood you will have to layer some woody sounding violins in. I have D.D. and I think they work pretty good.

    Rick

  3. #3
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Help me love GOS more then I do!

    Hi Lex,

    I think it\'s very easy to get obsessed with how samples sound, and this can destroy your creativity. I fall into it myself.

    One thing I always try to remember: If something\'s not working, then do something else. If your sound is clogging up, either resolve to fix it later in the mixdown with some EQ and imaging tools, or re-examine the orchestration to determine if you may be loading up a certain tessitura and contributing to the problem yourself. Maybe try voicing some other sections up or down an octave to clear out the space, or restructuring the section altogether. Orchestration is a lot like painting--you make constant adjustments to the whole as you put in the parts, so that the most important elements emerge.

    There\'s no reason to be unhappy with GOS. Is it perfect? Of course not...it\'s the best that a producer and a talented team could do for you at a given time. I have heard a lot of what\'s available, and had opportunity to use many of the libraries we discuss. There is not a single one that doesn\'t have its strong and weak points. That is simply the nature of the beast. Your challenge as a composer is to take that raw material and shape it into art, and sometimes that means putting expectations aside and just entering into a \"no blame\" partnership with your medium.

    In other words, imagine yourself a sculptor. Can you say, \"This granite just doesn\'t inspire me?\" You can. But really what you\'re saying is, \"I\'m not inspiring myself.\"

    Just sit and make something beautiful. That always helps me. Do anything, it can be small, or short or simple...just sit down every day and get in the habit of creating one beautiful, complete, piece of art. Write a 20 second love rhapsody to your girlfriend (trust me she will ride you like a naughty pony for your reward!!). If she doesn\'t, get a new girlfriend!!

    I was just reading Bill Brown\'s interview before I saw your thread, and he said something that is a very important truth...in essence he mentioned \"surrendering\" to the music. Every artist must learn that, and it is very hard, because it means letting go of your personal expectations--maybe letting go of some artistic goals. You cannot really force the muses into working with you. They are fickle, and prefer whispering in your ear when your gears aren\'t churning. I talk to Kip McGinnis from time to time, and when I\'m really grinding out deadlines and feeling uninspired, he reminds me to stop and take a walk.

    Talk to just about any artist in any medium, and they tend to say something very similar about creation, and it goes like this: You can study, practice, learn to imitate the masters, become a virtuoso...these are all valid and necessary pursuits on the path to artistry. But when it comes time for you to emerge and actually embrace your role as an artist, those things must be set aside, and you learn the final lesson, which is transparency. You must learn to trust the little voice in your head, and just try to bring those abstract ideas into being--without judging them.

    Now, all that may be a little off the subject, but I don\'t think it is. Being dissatisfied with your medium is usually a symptom of creative block, not a problem with the medium. The medium is just that. It\'s clay. It\'s paint. It can only sit there and wait for you to make some art. You have to forgive it for that, and then rise to the challenge of making art without taking the easy road of blaming the medium.

    Now, to give you some specific help...after checking your orchestrations, if you\'re sure that\'s what you want to hear, then go about correcting the specific problems you\'re mentioning. Synth-y attacks can almost always be corrected, either by moving notes closer together or separating them. Or by changing voices or by layering. And if you can\'t overcome the problem, you make a conscious decision to simply re-orchestrate to another instrument that will pull off the line, or go track some live players. If it\'s really necessary for you to be pulling these things off perfectly, then you may need to invest in more library material so that you have other resources that can help you in a pinch. That\'s not a disrespect to GOS, just an acknowledgement that no library can be the perfect tool for every single job.

    In terms of the tone quality/midrange buildup issues you mention...those can be fixed in any number of ways. Some gentle EQ cuts in the offending regions applied at the mixdown stage can open up space. Try panning things farther away from center. Try combinations of EQ and reverb to create a \"hole in the middle.\"

    If the expectation is that you want to hear a \"perfect\" sound coming from GigaStudio itself as you work, I cannot express too strongly how unreal an expectation that is. To get professional grade mixes, you MUST render the individual instrument tracks to disk and mix them in a good audio/DSP environment with high quality effects. That is a given. It is also something to take comfort in--that you can feel free to simply concentrate on realizing your ideas and making each part musical--knowing that you will have another layer of production in which to adjust tonal and spatial relationships. Many people wish this were not the truth, but fortunately is IS the truth. People sometimes torture themselves over issues that should be saved for mixing--WHILE THEY\'RE TRYING TO BE CREATIVE!! Separate these things, so you can feel free and light to explore without worrying about how it will all come together. Later, when the music has been brought into the world, you can go back and tweak and worry about the fine-tuning of orchestrations and balances. Don\'t let it poison your creativity.

    Hopefully that helps more than hurts. Don\'t be disappointed in any of your samples. Think of them as friends that you want to elevate to greatness, and work with them without blame, and you will discover new ways to be happy with your tools. A chisel is a chisel. The hand of the artist brings it to life.

  4. #4

    Re: Help me love GOS more then I do!

    Excellent \'out of the box\' post, Bruce. I know I speak for many aspiring composers who visit this forum - Thanks!!!

    Lex, there is not much to add to Bruce. Simon recommended the EQ settings given above and they worked well (in many situations.)

    I like the \'take a walk\' idea. It does work. In fact my best NEW Writing on a project is always the first 30-45 minutes of that session. Everything else after that period is tweaking/correcting.

    Good luck.

    Rob

  5. #5

    Re: Help me love GOS more then I do!

    Hello,

    I concur with RickD\'s suggestions about the EQ cuts that were discussed in this forum awhile back. I was hearing an almost \"nasal\" quality to the violins and violas [GOS Akai version] which disappeared when these frequencies were reduced. The resulting timbres definitely sounded more warm and woody to my ears. I also found that when using Altiverb with a GOS IR, there seemed to be an unusual resonance around 95hz, which was eliminated with a narrow parametric EQ cut.

    I\'d also like to commend Bruce on the wonderful post. Very well presented sir! A most interesting and eloquent treatise on that elusive muse we all seek.

    Oh.. and only one minor correction Bruce... I always thought the proper phrase was \"ride you like a rented pony\", not naughty pony... but perhaps that\'s just an Ohio thing. I asked my wife and she found both versions mildly offensive... indicating that either way is probably valid. [smile]

    Dennis

  6. #6

    Re: Help me love GOS more then I do!

    Hey Bruce!

    Thanks for the very nice post man. Lots of nice things there, and what I like most is that you so wilingly share your umm broader toughts, rare thing on this board...

    But I think you misunderstood it a bit..It really wasn\'t ment to be \"booohoo I don\'t like my new toy!\" thing.

    I like GOS very much, it serves me well and those are my main strings that I use all the time anyways. I don\'t expect them to write or orchestrate something by them selves when my inspiration is zero. I find my inspiration in different things, like sitting on a crowded train station for a while, or ussual walk in the nature, or blasting loud psy trance music. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

    I just don\'t like the sound of violines sometimes, and that can definetly be corected to suite my ears with some EQ. Thats why I asked..
    I know about the Simons EQ sets, I was wondering if somebody else experimented and found out some new ones that work well.
    And I was hoping to hear from Gary about the atacks.

    About the orchestration, you\'re dead on, if I knew to orchestrate strings better it would definetly sound better. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    Oh and I don\'t like to think of myself as an artist, really.sounds too \"artsy\"..hehehe..
    I just write , listen , live for and live of music!

    Soon my web page will be up so I\'ll be able to put some of my stuff up. I\'ll do some string writing and when its done put a post called \"GOS for Bruce\", would really love to hear your advices and opinion when you hear some of my music.. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    Thanks again , and to all others who replied.

    Oh and this:

    \"Write a 20 second love rhapsody to your girlfriend (trust me she will ride you like a naughty pony for your reward!!). If she doesn\'t, get a new girlfriend!!\"

    That absolutly made my day.LOL!!!!

    [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    Alex

  7. #7

    Re: Help me love GOS more then I do!


    Oh.. and only one minor correction Bruce... I always thought the proper phrase was \"ride you like a rented pony\", not naughty pony... but perhaps that\'s just an Ohio thing. [smile]

    Dennis
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I think renting a pony is illegal in most countries. Well, maybe not in Singapore or parts of Amsterdam.

    And, if anyone has any experience with this here, it\'s probably not a good idea to inform the rest of us of it.

    :-)

    Ryan.

  8. #8

    Re: Help me love GOS more then I do!

    I don\'t have much experience in the terms of years, but I have just found out that I have wrote about 485-500 (i have deleted some on occasion) pieces (most not completed) to date and I use strings in almost all of my pieces. I find the 2nd violins grand detache to be the most realistic and expressive of the 2nd violins.

  9. #9

    Re: Help me love GOS more then I do!

    Oh btw, it would probably do you some good to purchase a tape recorder so when you come up with a cool theme or something in your head you can hum it out or something and record it to refer to it later. I do that alot, but if you\'re near your pc it is best to use your pc mic to record it, that way you can play your theme and then sequence to it.

  10. #10

    Re: Help me love GOS more then I do!

    Originally posted by Adam Frechette:
    Oh btw, it would probably do you some good to purchase a tape recorder so when you come up with a cool theme or something in your head you can hum it out or something and record it to refer to it later. I do that alot, but if you\'re near your pc it is best to use your pc mic to record it, that way you can play your theme and then sequence to it.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">What are you people talking about? [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

    The thread was suposed to be about EQ setings in GOS, and weather the atacks on some patches are real?

    Funny.....

    Alex

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