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Topic: CC#17 and REL instruments

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  1. #1

    Re: CC#17 and REL instruments

    Jeannot,

    You have me a little puzzled on this one. CC#17 should not be active on any of the REL instruments (see the GOS Controller Assignments and Addendum if you ever have questions about which controllers are active on any given instrument – active controllers necessarily vary from instrument to instrument). Be aware that cc#17 (release control) was deactivated for a reason: the successful crossfade to the release sample requires a specific fixed release value – any changes can cause problems. Why you would be hearing any changes whatsoever when you enter cc#17 data is the source of my puzzlement. Maybe you have activated cc#17 in the instrument editor as a custom “EG Mod” modification? If not, you should not hear any changes when you enter cc#17 in an REL track (assuming I didn\'t miss deactivating an REL instrument in there someplace!)

    As to the adjustment of release sample level and length: levels can be dealt with in the Instrument Editor sample-by-sample using attenuation values in the Mix/Layer tab with the release layer highlighted and the desired sample region also highlighted. Length is more difficult. You could try applying decay values to each of the release sample regions but at the possible cost of losing some of the release benefits you are trying to gain. If you really wanted to get anal, you could export the release samples to an external editor and size them to taste. You may also want to play with fixed release envelope values for each note-to-release transition. Have fun with your experiments. If you come up with something good let Gary know and it may be included for everyone in a future update.

    Tom

  2. #2

    Re: CC#17 and REL instruments

    Jeannot,

    One more detail: If you try varying decay values you will also need to set EG1 Sustain Level to 0% (check values in the standard short bows for more information).

    Tom

  3. #3

    CC#17 and REL instruments

    Hello,

    I have had good and bad results with both and I start to believe that sometimes I just get lucky...
    The bad results sound as following:
    CC#17, the note starts and just before it fades out produces a kind of a wobble, as if there is a new subdued attack. I am able to smooth this out with some acrobatic CC#11 moves, but there should be an easier way... The results also are different when I place the CC17 message at the beginning, middle or end of the note. Is there a rule on where to place the CC17?
    REL instruments, the release sample often is just simply to loud or to short or to long. Is there a way of changing the volume or length of the release sample?
    Sorry for the lengthy post and thanks in advance for any suggestions.

    JW

  4. #4

    Re: CC#17 and REL instruments

    Tom,

    I should have called the post \"CC#17 or REL instruments\". No, I am not using CC#17 with REL instruments.
    What I am trying to achieve is a natural sounding end of phrases using either CC#17 or REL patches and - just for the record - most of the time it works, but sometimes - despite all the tweaking - I am stuck.
    The information I seeked is the following:
    Concerning CC#17: Do you send the message at the beginning, middle or end of the note? I am getting different results using either method, which one is recommended?
    Concerning REL patches: Let me compare this to the attenuation produced by CC#80 on the masking samples in the LEG instruments. I wonder if you could control the release samples in the REL instruments in a similar fashion.
    I apologize for the misunderstanding.
    Thank you for your answer.

    JW.

  5. #5

    Re: CC#17 and REL instruments

    Jeannot,

    The placement of the cc#17 data should be effective (in theory) anytime before you get to the beginning of the release envelope of the note. To be on the safe side I’d place it as early as possible.

    Yes, level control of the release samples can be added by loading the .gig file into the Instrument Editor and following this procedure:

    1. Highlight the REL instrument you wish to modify.
    2. “Rubber band” all of the regions (below the keyboard).
    3. “Rubber band” all of the velocity layers (lower left of center).
    4. Highlight the right hand box under “release trigger” (near the center of the screen). The right hand box should be dark green.
    5. Click on the “Mix/layer” tab on the lower right.
    6. Click on the down arrow of the “Attn control” box. Choose an unused general controller (like cc#18). Click the “apply” button.
    7. Save the file.

    You can now use cc#18 to control the level of the release samples. If you are “drawing” a controller into your track - lower values reduce the volume of the release samples. Be aware: Upon first loading the instrument you won’t hear the release samples because the default controller value will be at zero. You will need to enter a piece of cc#18 data at value 127 to hear the release samples at full volume. Alternatively, you could check the “invert” box next to the “Att control” box while following the above procedure. This will load the instrument with the the release samples at full volume but drawing the data into a track will seem counterintuitive (increase the data value to reduce the level of the samples). This bit of awkwardness is why that feature wasn’t included with the update. Also, take note that cc#94 can be used to turn the release samples on and off.

    Tom

  6. #6

    Re: CC#17 and REL instruments

    Tom,

    Thank you very much.

    Sincerely,
    Jeannot Welter.

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