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Topic: GPC8 and GPC7

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  1. #1

    GPC8 and GPC7

    Hello,

    I really enjoy the flexibility provided by the GPC 2 and 5.However I have not been able to get GPC 8 (note length) to work on any of the short bows...
    In the WARM instruments GPC 5 is supposed to work as a low-pass filter. With a setting of 120 (default) is there still a filter active?
    What is the order of the filter?

    Thank you for any information.
    Sincerely.

    Jeannot Welter.

  2. #2

    Re: GPC8 and GPC7

    Jeannot,
    You don\'t even have to assign GPC-8 on your keyboard controller to activate a shorter bowing length. Just record a modulation control right before the start of the first note of music and delete all of the modulation controller notes in your sequencer except for the very first one which you want to be at 1:01:000 or whatever your sequencer says (in my case Cakewalk PA9). Change the controller to 83(GPC-8) instead of 1(Modulation wheel) in your sequencer and set the value to whatever number you\'d like the short bow to be. 0 being the shortest, 127 being the longest.
    Hope that helps.

    [This message has been edited by Damon (edited 11-06-2001).]

  3. #3

    Re: GPC8 and GPC7

    Damon,

    Thanks for your reply. I am not using a keyboard. My sequencer is Logic Audio.

    I do get Gigastudio to respond to GPC 8 messages, unfortunately the GOS samples don\'t.

    Again thank you.
    Jeannot Welter.

  4. #4

    Re: GPC8 and GPC7

    Jeannot,

    First, the GPC-7 WARM control low-pass filter is still slightly active even with a setting of 127. The fact that the filter is still subtly “in line” at this setting is the reason WARM instruments were created as a separate category rather than just turning the filter on on all instruments. If Nemesys has published any information on the filter slopes (1st order, 2nd order, etc.) I haven’t seen it. As with most things in these instruments, the chosen default settings for the filters can be modified by the user in the Instrument Editor under the filter tab (make sure you’ve highlighted all regions, velocity splits, layers, etc.).

    Now, before going on to the GPC-8 length control, a general point: not all controllers are active in all instruments. Some are only appropriate to certain instruments and others just didn’t give satisfactory results, so were omitted. GPC-8 applies to most short bow instruments but not Grand Detache or Portato. Both of these were too long to effectively work with this technique. I will be working on a chart than will allow users to identify at a glance which controllers are active in each of the instruments. When it is completed it will be made available to G.O.S users. Now to the short bows that do use GPC-8:

    1. Load an instrument like 1st Vln Marcato into GigaStudio.
    2. Since you don’t have a keyboard, set up a track in Logic that repeats a single note several times (loop a couple of bars) at a moderate tempo. Make the note values long enough to trigger the entire length of the sample – quarter notes at 120 should be plenty.
    3. While this track is playing, open the MIDI Control Surface page in GigaStudio and move the GPC-8 fader down. You should hear a change in the note length (it should get shorter as you decrease the fader values.) The change is relatively subtle and, of course, notes can only be made shorter, not longer, than the default length. Length control is intended to give subtle (but useful) variation within a patch -- we are not talking about drastic changes here. If a more pronounced change in length is required, then you will need to switch to another patch at that point.
    4. If you hear the change, then your external control problem lies somewhere between your sequencer and GigaStudio. Make sure you are sending cc#83 to control GPC-8. I, too, am a Logic user, so I just set up a track as described above, drew in some cc#83 data and watched the GPC-8 fader in GigaStudio respond to the changes. The change in note length was also obvious listening to the playback. If you don’t have similar results, contact Gary and he can forward your email address to me and we’ll hash this out in tech support.

    One last thing: I strongly urge you to get some kind of MIDI controller (keyboard, wind controller, guitar controller, etc.) so that you can “play” your parts into the sequencer. Just entering them as notation is unlikely to give satisfactory results. Notation for printing or initial composition, yes. Notation for playback of virtual MIDI mockups, no. Only playing the parts in will give expressive results. If you wish, do your composition in notation, print the parts out, then read the parts as you play them back in. Once the parts are played in, then edit ‘til your heart’s content. Otherwise, you risk having your MIDI compositions sound stiff and mechanical.

    Hope this helps to resolve your difficulties.

    Tom

  5. #5

    Re: GPC8 and GPC7

    Tom,

    Thank you very much for your reply.
    I did use GPC 8 with detache, so it could not work. Indeed it works fine with marcato.

    I have 2 other questions that I believe are of general interest.

    The first one concerns the EXP instruments:
    Even with a 0 modulation, I can still hear some sound. Is this supposed to be the case?

    The second one concerns the portamento patches:
    I am trying to adjust the range of the bend with the following CCs:

    101:0
    100:0
    6:12
    101:127
    100:127

    But all I am getting is 2 semitones. Is this inherent to the patches or maybe a problem with Logic?

    I have been working in MIDI since about 1988,1989 without a keyboard. Every time I tried using a keyboard, I found myself doing more editing afterwards. But thank you for the advice.

    Again, I appreciate your help.
    Sincerely,

    Jeannot Welter.

  6. #6

    Re: GPC8 and GPC7

    \"The first one concerns the EXP instruments:
    Even with a 0 modulation, I can still hear some sound. Is this supposed to be the case?\"

    Yes. The EXP instruments have been calibrated (as closely as the dynamic curves in GigaStudio will allow) to match the actual dynamic range of the players at the time of the original recording session. Crescendos and diminuendos were recorded by the ensembles and these were used as tools for the calibration. This is demonstrated at the G.O.S. site with a comparison MP3. Keep in mind that EXP control is not the same as volume control, although that\'s one of its constituent parts (down to the softest level of the players).
    EXP simultaneously controls volume, timbre, and intensity of vibrato as played by the musicians at the original recording sessions. In other words, no LFO vibratos here. This is accomplished by using layer crossfades controlled by the mod wheel, with velocity response disabled.

    \"The second one concerns the portamento patches:
    I am trying to adjust the range of the bend with the following CCs:

    101:0
    100:0
    6:12
    101:127
    100:127

    But all I am getting is 2 semitones. Is this inherent to the patches or maybe a problem with Logic?\"

    Inherent in the patches. The recorded portamentos are all approx. 2 semitones. But this doesn\'t limit you to using them with only that interval. Properly placed, with careful length and level matching, they can be used with a wide variety of intervals. The controllers you mentioned above are not active in this patch.

    Tom



    [This message has been edited by Tom Hopkins (edited 11-08-2001).]

  7. #7

    Re: GPC8 and GPC7

    This answers all my questions.
    Thank you very much.

    Jeannot Welter.

  8. #8

    Re: GPC8 and GPC7

    Until only a few days ago, I was also one of those, who was using the keyboard controler very sparly, simply because I am not originally a keyboard player. After consulting Tom Hopkins, he gave me the same advice as in this post, I tried, and I must say here, that differencece is tremendous. I also use Logi and if I now do look at the matrix it is one mess, but the mess sounds much better as everything I ever did before. Since I am originally a saxophone player, I will buy me a synthophone, which is a real saxophone with MIDI build in hardware.

    ------------------
    IGOR

  9. #9

    Re: GPC8 and GPC7

    Hi Igor,

    I do understand where you and Tom are coming from. If you would see one of my scores, you would understand why I prefer manual input and editing.
    But thank you for the advice.

    Sincerely,
    Jeannot Welter.

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