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Topic: Why should I have to pay so much in ADDITION......?

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  1. #1

    Re: Why should I have to pay so much in ADDITION......?

    Have to agree with you, totally and utterly. The developers are very adamant that what we are paying for is a non-transferable license to use their sounds. So if I want to cross-grade something, then surely I already own the license to use the sounds, so I should only pay the cost of a few CD-Rs.

    It is conceivable that there should be some upgrade price because of the amount of reprogramming involved if developing a different format - so we should pay the cost of the CDs and a nominal amount to help developers recoup the cost of programming.

    But at the moment, here in England, there are no cross-grades. Time and Space simply give the reason that the developers don\'t support them. So we have to buy the whole library again. I think the developers really need to sort out what they want. If they want the same return on each and every unit sold, then it is surely illegal to claim that they can\'t be sold on. If they want to insist that we are not buying the package itself, but the right to use it, then they should start carrying this notion through to user-friendly crossgrades. They can\'t have it both ways.

  2. #2

    Re: Why should I have to pay so much in ADDITION......?

    Originally posted by kid-surf:
    <snip> A fair price would be whatever it costs to manufacture and deliver the new disc. And I know it\'s not $75 dollars! <snip> Thoughts?
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I\'m all for reasonably priced crossgrades, but what you didn\'t mention was that sample libraries are not merely collections of WAV files. They have to be programmed. Someone has to sit down and 1) convert the samples over to the next wave format if needed - this sometimes requires more than just using the sampler\'s import function or running it through CDXtract; and 2) reprogram the patches to sound good with the filters, envelopes, effects, etc. of the new sampler. This is not insignificant work, otherwise you would have done it yourself. What you are paying for is the programming. Is $75 a steep price for programming plus replication costs? Probably. E-mail the manufacturer and see if they can cut you a break, otherwise, unless you want to be a thief, them\'s the breaks.

  3. #3

    Re: Why should I have to pay so much in ADDITION......?

    Hi,

    It\'s their product. They are perfectly within their rights to charge whatever they want for it and we can choose to buy or not. I tend to find it a little bit steep myself but the conversion tools available are good enough for me that I don\'t have a problem converting myself.

    Jazzbozo, I agree with you that it is not trivial, and at one time, it took a very long time to do these conversions. CDXtract and Translator are so good now that it doesn\'t take a huge amount of time to reprogram them to sound the same on the second platform. Most of these titles do not have specialized programming for each hardware platform (with the exception of the softsamplers such as Giga, exs-24, Kontakt, Halion, etc.). Most of the time, the E-mu version does not have special EOS programming compared to the Akai version. This is not 100% the case but it is what I have seen in many instances. Giga crossgrades will typically take advantage of the extra RAM/Streaming available so that patches will be combined to use keyswitches and modwheel crossfades and such.

    I have my own thoughts (and suspicions) on why they charge this much. One has been said already - someone has to do the programming so there are those expenses. I believe that since they (typically) don\'t demand that you send back the original, many people would begin selling their original copy (even though it would be a violation of the license) and this is something that they can\'t control. Taken to an extreme, someone can say \"I have all these different sampler models - let me crossgrade for <insert your desired low price> for each title\". They would then turn around and sell each of the copies for a profit and, thereby recoup their cost on the original CD (or a portion of it at least). How would a company be able to police that? (simply rhetorical)

    Anyway, I don\'t want this to start being a piracy debate but I firmly believe that they are well within their rights to do this and it has been standard practice for a long time. Because of that, I make a choice whether or not I feel like doing the programming myself or paying the fee.

    Just MHO,
    FV

  4. #4

    Re: Why should I have to pay so much in ADDITION......?

    Hi,

    Let me clarify a little before someone takes it the wrong way. When I said that it is much easier now to convert these libraries (from E-mu to Akai and other samplers), I am not talking about crossgrades between some of the newer formats. Pretty much almost everything nowadays is coming out for Giga or Kontakt (Kontakt player, Kompakt player, etc.). Most of these have special programming to take advantage of specialized features on each platform. Some developers are utilizing programming wizards (King Idiot, Tom for GPO, Rick Chadwick, etc.) to do this.

    I\'m mostly talking about the older platforms and titles created for those. Most of the CD\'s I\'ve run into for those platforms had very little platform-specific programming.

    I did not intend for it to sound like it is trivial. It is not, especially dealing with multiple CD-Rom titles. I merely wanted to say that it is easier now than it used to be. Sorry I was long-winded. Too many people get in a knot these days if something isn\'t worded very well.

    Hope I didn\'t bore you [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    FV

  5. #5
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    Re: Why should I have to pay so much in ADDITION......?

    Sorry but......


    1) Akai discs have already been programed, not for my CROSSGRADE, but to SELL. They didn\'t do anything special for ME, so please stop with that. So I don\'t \"buy\" the extra programing argument.


    2) Yes, what the heck am I buying here? A license right? Well then I feel I am entitled to use a copy. Why? Because I would NOT be using the version I PAID for. As well, aren\'t I then braking the law if I convert the lib with Chicken or CDEx? What\'s the deal...? Hey I\'m all for paying for this stuff but spare me the double talk!


    3) Yep, they can charge whatever the heck the want to, doesn\'t mean it\'s the right thing to do. They sit around telling us we should do the \"right thing\", so should they! Man, call me crazy, but I\'ll I want to do is use something that I paid to use (the license, it says so in the liner notes). They can try to sue me if they want to,
    but I\'m gonna look for a copy (what\'s the diff if I use that or the Translated version, and how do they prove what I\'m using anyway?). They have my info since I paid my money to them. As well I will NOT be using my current copy. In fact I will mail it to them once I find a copy.


    Fair nuff?

    Hey, I called them to try and do it the right way first... they shouldn\'t have a problem with me doing it this way. Especially since I\'ll send the EMU version back to them. They can put it on e-bay.

    This is not a piracy issue to me. So please lets not go there.


    BTW- if they programed a version that was not ALSO able to be sold, then I could see your guys point.

  6. #6
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    Re: Why should I have to pay so much in ADDITION......?

    BTW- What I would\'ve been satisfied with is:

    \"Sure, send us the original back along with $20 and we\'ll send you a COPY of the AKAI version\".

    I wouldn\'t even need the packaging. They\'d still make money.

    Besides, are they really selling many of these old drum libs considering what is out now a days? Come on..... We\'re not talking VSL.

    So yeah, it\'s friggn lame. I\'d rather have a satisfied customer who\'ll spend $500 to $5000 on my next latest greatest lib.


    Stupid crap like this is what will lose my business... is it worth it? I never said I wanted it for free.

    I read the fine print again, I don\'t think I\'m doing anything illegal by searching for a copy and then using it.


    License Agreement: \"Copies are provided to you only to enable you to exercise your rights under the license. Only this license is purchased by you\"

    They don\'t mention where these \"copies\" are to come from....

  7. #7

    Re: Why should I have to pay so much in ADDITION......?

    Hi Kid,

    I hope you didn\'t take my comments the wrong way. I really agree with you and I think that the secondary copies are priced too high as well. I was offering my thoughts as to why I think the developers charge that.

    I wasn\'t suggesting that it is right nor wrong. I don\'t know their business so I don\'t know what kinds of costs the 50% of retail price is supposed to cover on a sample library. Perhaps there are other things factored into their price.

    Have you spoken to the developer about your gripes with the policy? Perhaps, they can work something out for you. Just a thought as it is probably easier than searching for a \"copy\" somewhere.

    HTH,
    FV

  8. #8
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    Why should I have to pay so much in ADDITION......?

    ...to what I\'ve already paid to \"exchange\" one version for another?

    •Interactive Drum Kits and Snares EMU to AKAI version.

    $75? how is that fair? Makes me want to find a copy....


    A fair price would be whatever it costs to manufacture and deliver the new disc. And I know it\'s not $75 dollars!

    I\'m feeling like in these situations (does this even occur that often to try to squeeze a few more bucks out of customers?) it\'s better to keep customers happy vs making them feel like they\'re getting screwed. In that case they may just find a copy. How can you prove what disc the sample came from if they already paid for it.....

    I believe the \"relationship\" between developers and buyers should be one of \"mutual\" respect. Don\'t expect me to be cool about this if you aren\'t cool to me....


    Thoughts?

  9. #9
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    Re: Why should I have to pay so much in ADDITION......?

    FV-

    No, I\'m not directing this at you buddy! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] And yes, I understood where you were coming from, so we\'re cool. BTW-- Some of this is just me venting. But I thought some developers might jump in to explain the reasoning behind this weird practice.

    You\'re right, I should contact the developer directly. I went through Ilio, perhaps that was the problem?

    We\'ll see...

    I\'m loading this thing one way or the other, though. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]


    KID-

  10. #10

    Re: Why should I have to pay so much in ADDITION......?

    SampleTekk has free crossgrades.
    I suppose that there are several aspects on this, but we think that if you bought a license, the license applies to the samples, not the platform.

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