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Topic: VotA Word-building

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  1. #1

    VotA Word-building

    While I\'m anxiously awaiting Nuno\'s Wordbuilding Utility, I\'m also keen to know more about the basics of wordbuilding with VotA.

    The library throws me into rapture sometimes... the voices work so well for the type of music I\'m creating. Still, the progress I\'m making in blending consonants with vowels is slow indeed!!

    I wonder if Nick or anyone else is willing to shed some light on how to overcome some of the problems I\'m having in this regard.

    First, I find that the vowel samples seem to have a beautifully shimmery and dispersed stereo image. The consonants, on the other hand seem to be somewhat blunter and (as to the stereo image) more centered. Thus I\'m finding it hard to match and blend the consonants and the vowels. What I end up with seems like a choir singing oohhhhh, and another choir singing toh or sheh or tzah (etc) on top of the beginning of the first choir\'s note. It seems like a superimposition much more that a blending.

    Secondly, I\'m trying to do this, somehow, in real time, rather than with a sequencer. If I\'m trying to blend a pitched \"t\" with \"eh\" of the same pitch, how would I do that? I can imagine schemes for remapping the consonants to different octaves (without pitch shifting) so that the two samples would be independent, but don\'t know if this would be a waste of time to try. There might be some more straight-forward method.

    What would be a good way of ending a word with a consonant, as the consonants seem to have a tailing vowel sound, rather than a leading vowel with a consonant ending (such as aaahhck).

    I still haven\'t figured out what the usefulness of the unpitched consonants would be? Any guidance here?

    If I\'d never heard the demos with words, I\'d be a much happier person. I\'d just aaahhhh and uhhhhhh myself into oblivion, the sounds are _that_ gorgeous. I\'d like to get better at making words, and any help would be much appreciated.
    Gabriel

  2. #2

    Re: VotA Word-building

    I belive that Nick once said: \"VotA choir is not meant to play solo\" It must be drowned in a orchestra or a organ.. Maybe not drowned but there must be something in the background (or foreground) [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    And the words must be built like they sound when sung, not like they are spelled..

    Lets say that you want a long uuuuhhhh to be ended with and mmm.. like uuuhhhhmmmm..
    I tried to do just that and i discovered that the decay of the uuhh samples sounds like mmmm IMO..
    Maybe im deaf [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

  3. #3

    Re: VotA Word-building

    Dropping the lows can REALLY help. I was amazed at how much difference it made. A delay in reverb can help, too.

    Heck, even throw in another version of the same consonant. It\'s all good.

  4. #4

    Re: VotA Word-building

    I used my Logic 5 sequencer/notation program frequently to build words with VOTA. I\'m talking about mouse input, note by note. With the\"hyperview feature\" I can assign <<program change>> and <<volume>> to each single note or fraction of it. Then it comes <<key switching>>on top. I use mainly the men\'s choir to experiment with, since key switch notes are not too too far down the auxiliary lines.

    It needs a lot of tweaking to get proper words. I also found that program change numbers
    sometimes do not exatly match the listed vowel, or the vowel sounds totally different for example for a C or C1, just one octave apart. I was able to construct simple syllables such as \"fuss\" or \"burr\" but I couldn\'t make it to more complex words such as \"sanctus\" or \"halleluia\".

  5. #5

    Re: VotA Word-building

    Here the amended Post again.

    I used my Logic 5 sequencer/notation program frequently to build words with VOTA. I\'m talking about mouse input, note by note. With the\"hyperview feature\" I can assign \"program change\" and \"volume\" to each single note or fraction of it. Then it comes \"key switching\" on top of it. I use mainly the men\'s choir to experiment with, since key switch notes are not too too far down the auxiliary lines. It needs a lot of tweaking to get proper words. I also found that program change numbers sometimes do not exatly match the listed vowel, or the vowel sounds totally differently for example for a C or C1, just one octave apart. I was able to construct simple syllables such as \"fuss\" or \"burr\" but I couldn\'t make it to more complex words such as \"sanctus\" or \"halleluia\".

  6. #6

    Re: VotA Word-building

    I have a suggestion for you VOTA users. I\'ve heard some demos, and some of the frustration of making it sound natural, and understandable. Something that came to mind, is that some studies in diction would help you out probably. Being in a choir, there are lots of times when the vowel you sing is much different than the way you would speak it.

    Something else that strikes me, is the use of dipthongs (blended or changing vowels). In a real choir you try to avoid them as much as possible, as it tends to make you sound like a backwoods hick (not that there is anything wrong with that!) but perhaps by using them ( with descretion!) with something like VOTA, it would make it sound more real.

    For example...
    Take the word \"Like.\" Hard to do, perhaps. I don\'t think there is a long \"I\" sound recorded, it would probably sound like the \"i\" in the word \"it\". And since this is a dipthong, how would you record that long \"I\" sound, since it\'s really two sounds.. Ahhh and Eee. So, when you make up your word if you ut in the \"L\", then a long Ahhh, and right before you go to the \"k\" put in a quick \"Eeee\", it would probably be more understandable. Granted, in a real choir situation, you would probably avoid the dipthong for diction purposes, but for the sake of being able to understand the words you might have to put some of these things in there.

    Just a suggestion from the peanut gallery, really. Anyone want to try it and post the results, I\'d be curious if it works.

  7. #7

    Re: VotA Word-building

    I am going to include a short help file in the utility when it is done. That will help.

  8. #8

    Re: VotA Word-building

    Aenigma I do this all the time [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    I use crossfades between different vowels to create the correct \"sound\" of the vowels in a word.

    words like \"I\'ve\" and \"far\" and jsu tabout anyword that ends with a consonant works for this.

  9. #9

    Re: VotA Word-building

    Nick,

    The help file will be great. When do expect this utility to be ready.

    Also, are there any plans for releasing updated .art files for the library. Thanks.

    p.s. - I wrote a Piano Concerto (with lots of your WC/MC ees, shouts, gliss, etc.) I performed it live for the first time the other night and had many ask \'who\'s choir\' was on playing (I played to a minus one track). It truly was/is that convincing. With the ability to word-building in a simpler manner, it will just make it that much better.

    Rob

  10. #10

    Re: VotA Word-building

    Originally posted by Rob Elliott:
    Nick,

    The help file will be great. When do expect this utility to be ready.

    Also, are there any plans for releasing updated .art files for the library. Thanks.

    p.s. - I wrote a Piano Concerto (with lots of your WC/MC ees, shouts, gliss, etc.) I performed it live for the first time the other night and had many ask \'who\'s choir\' was on playing (I played to a minus one track). It truly was/is that convincing. With the ability to word-building in a simpler manner, it will just make it that much better.

    Rob
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">KingIdiot has a .ART file for the Mens Choir on his site: http://www.musicyouneed.com/ARTupdates/

    Havent tried it tough...

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