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Topic: half off price

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  1. #1

    half off price

    I was thinking about buying 20 copies of a popular orchestral library. I, of course, would keep one for myself, but I\'d like to sell 18 for half-off to whoever wants to buy... just as a gesture of kindness to those who couldn\'t afford it, otherwise. And the last one would go for free to the winner of my Great Sampling Orchestral Composer Contest.

    I was wondering if this is all legal?

  2. #2

    Re: half off price

    \"I was wondering if this is all legal?\"

    Nope.

  3. #3

    Re: half off price

    Originally posted by Marty:
    I was wondering if this is all legal?
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Probably it could be, if the other 19 are unopened and the new owner agrees to all the licensing requirements.

    Count me in! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

  4. #4

    Re: half off price

    But in 99.9% of the cases, it\'s not legal. He\'s not buying the samples, he\'s buying the right to use them for him and himself only.

  5. #5

    Re: half off price

    Hello all,

    I actually delurked to respond to this message. I have been following the debate about Gigasamper library prices for some time now - I even started a simialr thread over on the Yahoo site.

    I have to say that as a copyright specialist (not a lawyer - standard disclamer re legal advice, etc) that most of what is written here, regarding legal and illegal use of copyrighted software in regard to selling after purchase, is completely incorrect. Use of copyrighted software, in general, is not a black and white issue in as much as the law on this is \"case law\" (decided by a judge and then used as ammunition in subsequent court cases) and not statute law.

    Perhaps Mr Rooftop would like to cite a legal reference for his negative answer regarding reselling a commercial product where the primary buyer has not counsumated the shrink wrap license by opening the product?

    I post this because in the thread I started, mentioned above, regarding a possible \"wholesale type\" group purchase of libraries, the very first response was from someone whose kneejerk reacion was that it was somehow illegal.

    I must mention that in discussions with Franz at VR, although he turned us down for a low cost package, he was most forthcomming and gentlemanly in doing so. I understand the compilers\' wish to protect their intellectual property and right to profit from it - and I also have to say that I relate to the average buyer\'s desire for affordable sounds to use in Giga.

    Mike

  6. #6

    Re: half off price

    Personally I think the developer should be more than happy about it....he\'s getting the full price for the product!

    Rather, I am curious about Marty\'s sudden \"Santa Claus\" behaviour....it\'s a nice gesture....but why?

    Also, I think you might avoid some of the legal entanglements by maybe giving them away as \"prizes\" for some type of competition.

    I also want to point out that ReMix magazine has been running for the past few months an offer where they give new subscribers an audio sample CD from various developers like Ilio and East West....I am assuming that it\'s quite legal for them to do so.

  7. #7

    Re: half off price

    Originally posted by Rooftop:
    [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]
    It also brings up the issue of being able to track who uses their product. If someone were to redistribute their copy (which I\'m sure 99 out of 100 license agreements are against) without letting the developer know, it could create a huge mess for everyone involved if the developer found out that someone not under the license agreement was using the product. The developer had no idea Person B was a charity case for Person A, so they\'re gonna go after whomever has a copy of their library that was not issued to them in the first place
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I can only relate to Dutch law (as that\'s what I study), but I don\'t think they are going after anyone here anytime soon because any lawyer familiar with jurisprudence on the validity of shrink wrap licences would tell them their case is pretty much non-existent (at least in my country).

    The Dutch court has argued that a shrink wrap license only holds up if the list of terms and conditions are present and can actually be read right in the store before or at the moment of purchase.

    Additionally, under Dutch copyright law those who lawfully obtain a piece of software are automatically granted a user license, the right to use the piece of software they bought. In other words, the law provides the legal license to use the software. A contractual relationship with the developers is not even necessary.

    I find it strange that you would condone terms and conditions which, at the least, are legally very questionable.

  8. #8

    Re: half off price

    Very well stated Sovereign,

    Copyright laws are quickly becoming uniform around the world and you have pretty much stated the argument that I hoped to allude to by mentioning the shrink warp license. Many courts here have ruled that such licenses are not necessarily that binding.

    I asked Roofer for a legal reference merely to point out that he doesn\'t know what he is talking about [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] To say that everyone should be made to \"jump in the lake\" because he is willing to, is a fairly pitiful argument.

    To go further, if you really what to reduce this argument to final absurd level - should the makers of the various musical instruments and the halls that the samples are recorded in, be cut-in on sample CD profits? I can only assume that the musician is paid and made to sign away any rights to his individually made musical notes - each of which, might be (lamely) argued to be a copyrightable musical compositions in terms of attack and release.

    In any case, I tire of this legal talk. Would someone just sell me some samples I can afford?

    BTW: I have come up with an ad hoc scheme that could distinguish \"amateur\" users of Giga from professionals for sales purposes - if any developers are interested.

    Mike

  9. #9

    Re: half off price

    Well, one of you mentioned my Santa Claus behaviour. How is my behaviour any different from SoundsOnLine offereing Rare Instr. and QLB as a $500 bundle? Isn\'t this close to the same thing I want to do? Buy expensive libraries and charge half off.

    After the intial euphoria of getting \"half\" off, doesn\'t anyone feel a slight kick in the ribs when SoundsOnLine offers a $500 product for $250. Doesn\'t Nick get perturbed? Don\'t get me wrong, I\'ll hapily accept a product for half off, but it puts a frustrating willy in my nilly, when I see what the mark up is.

    Anyway, as long as my 18 CDs stay in their shrinkwrap, I\'m in the legal playing field.

  10. #10

    Re: half off price

    [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

    Just one of the several issues is that many developers embed their samples with a watermark that is specific to YOU and YOU ONLY upon the time of your purchase.

    There might be a developer or two out there that would perhaps make a deal with the person that started this topic, assuming all copies were originally paid for in full, that the licensed user was changed, etc. etc.

    But that is far, far, far from the norm.

    It also brings up the issue of being able to track who uses their product. If someone were to redistribute their copy (which I\'m sure 99 out of 100 license agreements are against) without letting the developer know, it could create a huge mess for everyone involved if the developer found out that someone not under the license agreement was using the product. The developer had no idea Person B was a charity case for Person A, so they\'re gonna go after whomever has a copy of their library that was not issued to them in the first place

    Again, a huge mess if the proper steps are not taken.

    If you want your legal references, go to court or ask a developer. I\'m a user and supporter of these libraries just making sure everyone follows the same set of rules I agreed to, stated in the license agreement, when I purchased the products.

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