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Topic: OT: Most difficult instrument(s) to mockup?

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  1. #1

    OT: Most difficult instrument(s) to mockup?

    What instruments are giving you a big headache when you\'re writing orchestral mockups?

    What are your standard procedure workarounds?

    I myself am struggling a lot with trumpets.
    To me a trumpet section is the most difficult thing to mockup properly.

    I think this could be an interesting topic and perhaps people will share some of their experience as well!

    Thomas

  2. #2

    Re: OT: Most difficult instrument(s) to mockup?

    I\'d have to say trumpets as well. Convincing trumpet parts are pretty damn hard to make since there are so many articulations in a phrase.

  3. #3

    Re: OT: Most difficult instrument(s) to mockup?

    Solo violin....

    Actually i find all instruments hard to mockup except piano.. But i just cannot get that violin to sound right.. I have written two pieces for Piano & Solo Violin but im really having a hard time doing the violin.. And since im not making commercial music i dont wanna spend cash on getting a real violin player..

  4. #4

    Re: OT: Most difficult instrument(s) to mockup?

    hmmm...

    I\'d say distortion guitar...

    I just got a crazy idea about a distortion guitar library... Well perhaps King is interested:
    What if we \"abuse\" the VOTA wordbuilding tool to give a multisampled distortion guitar more expression controls? Sorry if this is crap, I do not know what the tool is able to do and if it is easier to create a new similar tool.

    So long,
    Hansi

  5. #5

    Re: OT: Most difficult instrument(s) to mockup?

    Triangle - that is a b*tch!

  6. #6

    Re: OT: Most difficult instrument(s) to mockup?

    I think woodblock is even harder imho [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

    I think getting convincing fast trumpet lines to sound real is the hardest thing as well. That\'s usually always the dead giveaway in an orchestral mockup to me.
    Anybody with any convincing fast trumpet line demos they want to share? I\'d love to hear [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

  7. #7

    Re: OT: Most difficult instrument(s) to mockup?

    Originally posted by Damon:
    I think woodblock is even harder imho [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

    I think getting convincing fast trumpet lines to sound real is the hardest thing as well. That\'s usually always the dead giveaway in an orchestral mockup to me.
    Anybody with any convincing fast trumpet line demos they want to share? I\'d love to hear [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Well, There is a fast(ish) trumpet bit at the end of \"thieves highway\" on my site...you\'ll have to go through the tortuous bother of downloading the whole track just to hear it though. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] In any case, its a custom brass patch, works well everynow and again...
    Btw, if anyone does try to DL any of my tracks and has problems, can you let me know...teething problems you see. [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] Or indeed, if you did manage to DL any of the tracks, perhaps i\'ve used up my bandwhidth. Bloody internet.

  8. #8

    Re: OT: Most difficult instrument(s) to mockup?

    Originally posted by Thomas_J:
    What instruments are giving you a big headache when you\'re writing orchestral mockups?
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Solo violins, trumpets, flutes, clarinets, oboes...

    What are your standard procedure workarounds?
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I found a flute and clarinet player, three trumpet players, and an aspiring trombone and french horn player. Unfortunately they aren\'t always available. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] In the mean time, I practice a violin, cello, doublebass and trumpet everday now.

    I figured the time spent practicing these instruments would eventually yield more fruit than the time I\'ve spent farting around with samples.

    But, until then and when my musicians aren\'t available, especially for unimportant projects, I don\'t mind sharing my method of midi mockups.

    I myself am struggling a lot with trumpets.
    To me a trumpet section is the most difficult thing to mockup properly.

    Thomas
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">That\'s no surprise, the number of articulations available for trumpets are very limited. And no one seems to have done anything for making legato passages.

    For what it\'s worth, here is how I do trumpet midi mockups, when I\'m trying to do my absolute best:

    1) make a master midi track of the solo
    2) overdub controller info. if applicable. (I\'m not a talented keyboard/piano player)
    3) make about 4 additional midi tracks for pasting different parts into for articulations or layering.
    4) review and select appropriate samples from my trumpet samples in gigastudio(in my PC, I use a Mac for sequencing.
    5) Play the first phrase from the master track using a basic long trumpet patch, and decide which of my Trumpet patches will best play each and every syllable. Then I will copy those parts from the Master track into the midi track with the appropriate patch.
    6) Try layering and adjusting velocities for the best possible effect on each and every syllable.
    7) record automated midi volume, and make manual adjustments as necessary.
    8) shut off the master track and play all the midi tracks containing the articulations I\'ve chosen.

    This is a long and tedious process but it works best for me. But it hasn\'t produced what I\'d call \"realistic results.\" There are\'nt enough articulations available, and when I try to use other libraries the spectrum is hard if not even impossible to match.
    I haven\'t been able to make realistic legato phrases this way either because I don\'t have any legato articulations. I think I would have to edit a patch of long samples, by fading out the attack, in order to make a patch that could do legato.

    Rick

  9. #9

    Re: OT: Most difficult instrument(s) to mockup?

    I think a simple answer is that the hardest to mockup are those instruments that you play yourself. For example, I play guitar, and am never satisfied with midi guitar, so I record it live. I play drums, and am usually not satisfied with midi drums. I\'m usually fairly happy with my string mockups, but string players I know say that they sound terrible and unrealistic.

    I also find that when I listen to other people\'s mockups, I can tell if it\'s a mockup by the instruments I play. If I hear strings I may not be able to tell. If I hear midi guitar, it\'s a dead giveaway.

  10. #10

    Re: OT: Most difficult instrument(s) to mockup?

    James, I tried to download your song, but I got \'Page could not be displayed.\'

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