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Topic: Post Grandioso\Bos or Bardstown Bos for rock\pop?

  1. #1

    Post Grandioso\\Bos or Bardstown Bos for rock\\pop?

    I don\'t want to in any way diminish the new piano libraries--all the demos sound astonshingly good. At the same time, I\'m on a limited budget and need a piano that can function in a rock\\pop setting, which for me means sounding like Joni Mitchell or Carol King\'s piano.

    Could the people at Post and Bardstown offer some suggestions or demos about how their clearly beautiful libraries sound when playing relatively simple, more exposed, chord-based piano? I feel more than a little foolish asking this, since most of the people on this forum seem to play either classical or film music that emerges from a broad understanding of classical music. (I think I\'m the only person on this forum who has ever mentioned Joni Mitchell\'s Blue or Carol King\'s Tapestry as having a piano sound I want to achieve.)

    Should I just expect to buy some libraries, such as the great Post and Bardstown sets, for classical\\jazz, and look elsewhere for a piano that is good for \"soft rock\"? (Could there be a worse label for people who wrote \"I Wish I Had a River\" and \"I Feel the Earth Move Under My Feet?\")

    What I\'m asking is guess, is if anyone has some mpgs of these libraries playing this kind of music? Anyone have some mpgs of these libraries playing this kind of music with a singer on top?

  2. #2

    Re: Post Grandioso\\Bos or Bardstown Bos for rock\\pop?

    Hi Jake,

    Here is a comment from Pete Leoni, who is a tech writer for Mix and EQ magazines, regarding the Bardstown Audio Bosendorfer Imperial..

    Bosendorfer Imperial...

    \"I just got home from my weekend house gig. I loaded the piano sample up on the Giga machine I usually use for my left hand bass sound, but tonight we had a bass player. I don\'t usually post this late at night but I\'ve got to tell you guys, I\'ll be damned if I didn\'t want the gig to last another set or two, that is how jazzed I am over the way this thing sounded. I simply didn\'t want to stop playing it. That is saying a lot after 25 years or so of playing piano in a club, It is easy to get bored, but not tonight! This sample floored me, completely amazed the other guys in the group, (one of them being a real rock and roll and country grizzled veteran with many top 20 credits to his name and a hell of a fine picker).

    \"It was sort of a surreal experience. The same licks that I\'ve been playing on the same songs for years took on what I can only describe as a strange sense of \'profoundness\' That has never happened before! The chordal rhythm stuff blended with the other instrument in the band and the rides simply \'jumped\' out of the mix. I\'ve never seen that happen either to this degree, other than playing a live grand. Even the club owner (and you know how they are) made unsolicited and positive comments about the sound of this piano!\"

    Pete Leoni, engineer, producer, tech writer, Mix Magazine

  3. #3

    Re: Post Grandioso\\Bos or Bardstown Bos for rock\\pop?

    While showing great respect for the efforts at Bardstown Audio and for the results they obtained, my choice would be PMI Steinway Grandioso.

    Here\'s what I wrote about this piano library:

    I\'m so happy to read about a new grandioso series piano by Mr. Post.
    I\'m a proud user of PMI Steinway Grandioso: I never succeded in using a sampled piano libary \"freely\" and \"happily\". What I\'m trying to say (or better: write) is that every piano library I\'ve been using for some time always started to disappoint me after a couple hours spent playing it. Bad splits, artificial notes, insufficient layers, everything translates into: unusable, unreal. These two words easily mean \"no inpiration\", no way of creating what you have in your mind.
    Using PMI Steinway Grandioso, I\'ve been able to realize a project I\'ve been thinking about for at least 2 years:
    \"Feelings unnoticed\", my second album, will contain solo piano improvisations: 14 tracks of PURE improvisation (hit the record button, play, hit the stop button and listen). Nothing but Grandioso Steinway by Mr. Post could have been used for such a project: that library is my personal companion of every night I spend improvising at the keyboard.
    After having visited PMI at Amsterdam I realized that I not only have the chance to capture my inspiration (by having an instrument that perfectly behaves as I like when playing), but I also know a real professional sound designer/engineer as Michiel Post is.
    I take the chance to greet Mr.Post again and write a big \"thanks\" for the nice chat we had at PMI.
    For further informations about PMI Grandioso and my second album \"Feelings unnoticed\" featuring PMI Steinway Grandioso, I strongly suggest you to visit:
    you fill find an in-deep review of that piano library (which I believe interesting because it\'s been made by BOTH the producing side-PMI and the customer side-MYSELF so you have more than one point of view) and some free mp3s containing a perfect dry recording of some piano pieces by me.
    Again, if you are curious to know how it feels to have a sampled piano that behaves just like your mind/heart/hand want, try the Grandioso series and you will not be disappointed. No need for other piano libraries..and now everything\'s better! you can choose your piano timbre Steinway or Bosendorfer, while having the same perfect sampling methods!
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">(source: http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=003103 )

    When I first heard about the Grandioso, I just thought about how hard times were to be able to conquer the scene with a new acoustic piano library. Then I listened to the Grandioso and I thought about how hard times were for other products to be able to take the scene back once it appeared. Now that I can play the Grandioso in my studio, I perfectly know I won\'t be looking for other piano libraries. I ask no more, I already have hours and hours spent playing here and having such a fun no other piano library had given me. Although I\'m mainly a keyboards player, I keep studying and playing classical music very hard. It\'s impossible to have classical piano studies on a synthetizer, but I\'ve never heard an acoustic sampled piano playing classical music so beautifully from a sampled library. Everything is outstanding: ambience is absent from the main program leaving you free of using any kind of room/reverberation. Sustain layers and release layers are finally just what they would be, present but not intrusive or aggressive. Harmonics can be heard so beautifully and all the presets (look below) avaiable really make it possible for anyone to create any kind of preset needed. It is also possible to gather all this amazing into one setup in order to reach a never-heard before realism. Be prepared to hear this piano sound just the way you want it, to be present in a mix and so expressive in solo, to be soft, loud, compressed, distant, near, smooth, bright and so on.

    Every shape of the piano has been captured and I don\'t regret using this expression also if it has been abused by every other samples manifacturer. In the past it was abused, now I believe it\'s time to use it.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">(source: http://www.albertorizzoschettino.com/pmi/grandioso.html )

    I strongly suggest you to visit my site to get further informations and samples about PMI Steinway Grandioso at:


    Best luck with your choices,

  4. #4

    Re: Post Grandioso\\Bos or Bardstown Bos for rock\\pop?


    Listen to this demo of the Bardstown Bosendorfer with a midi file that I found on the net of Linus & Lucy. Pay special attention to the harmonics of the last note as it fades out. It is an incredible piano sample. I have listened to all the demos of every piano that has been posted here, and have not found one that I like better for either solo piano or using in a mix (although there ARE other incredible piano samples).


    -- Martin

  5. #5

    Re: Post Grandioso\\Bos or Bardstown Bos for rock\\pop?

    Oh yeah. Also compare the bottom end of the piano in any of the other samples to the Bardstown Bosendorfer. I think you will find it much more suitable for light rock.

    -- Martin

  6. #6

    Re: Post Grandioso\\Bos or Bardstown Bos for rock\\pop?

    I sure prefer the \"air\" around the PMI Bosen...

  7. #7

    Re: Post Grandioso\\Bos or Bardstown Bos for rock\\pop?

    Thanks for the suggestions.

    I should mention that I\'m not looking for a light rock sound. Carol King is more Gospel\\R&B. (I\'m thinking of Tapestry, here, by far the best album.) Not sure what I\'d call Mitchell, on Blue, at least. Maybe this is just a problem defining terms. When I think of light rock, I think of Billy Joel or Elton John after the first album.

    The piano on Mitchell\'s Blue is pretty powerful and direct. (Apparently the album was recorded in her living room directly to 8 tracks by sticking mics into her piano.) Carol King can still start a small riot if left alone on stage with a loaded piano. Sorry for the rant. I\'m more of a Stones fan when it comes to rock and roll, but these ladies broke my heart when I was fifteen...

  8. #8
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Dallas, Texas

    Re: Post Grandioso\\Bos or Bardstown Bos for rock\\pop?

    Hi Jake,

    I have both of those albums (vinyl, no less...am I giving up my age?), so if you\'ll bear with me a little while, I\'ll try to let you know which piano library is the closest match to that sound.


  9. #9

    Re: Post Grandioso\\Bos or Bardstown Bos for rock\\pop?

    I can\'t help you to find the piano sound you are looking for but be aware that, whatever the sound you need, most samples libraries just sound as the piano was sort of flat, splattered in the wall between your speakers.

    I agree with Noenoeil: PMI Grandioso pianos have a great \"air\" too. Take this in great care.

    Good luck again,

  10. #10
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Dallas, Texas

    Re: Post Grandioso\\Bos or Bardstown Bos for rock\\pop?

    OK, Jake...

    Unfortuately, Tapestry is currently at large--probably misfiled, but I won\'t have time to flip through 1500+ albums to find it. If I happen to come across it, though, I\'ll give you an update. I found Blue.

    Probably for the \"Blue\" sound, the Bardstown Bosendorfer is going to be closer. It\'s a close call...the Post Steinway is actually a little closer timbrally right out of the box, but the piano on Blue is definitely a player perspective image so you\'ll come closer to that by filtering the Bosie, either in the mix or by selecting one of the variations on mapping. If you want to do it \"live,\" you will need to use the filtered patches, probably the Mod Filter (#4). It is a little hard to get the exact match, because the vocals are so up front on that album that the piano recedes quite a bit.

    Also, this is definitely a compressed piano sound, so you would need to compress the track after the fact to keep it from having \"stick-outs\" and getting into the vocal space too much.

    One cannot underestimate the impact of the mix upon instrumental imaging and timbre. In this case, you have a very unnatural balance...Joni\'s rather soft and intimate voice mixed WAY up front juxtaposed with some pretty aggressive two-fisted piano which is mixed significantly \"back\" yet is obviously very close mic\'ed. This sound will never just \"come out of the box.\"

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