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Topic: Händel bis

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  1. #1

    Händel bis

    This is the final version of the 2 Händel Dances. This time, I've used a lot more human touch, slurs, dynamics, slight tempo variations, small irregularities in the playing...

    To be able to compare the two versions:

    Händel Dances, version 1

    Händel Dances, version 2


    Enjoy the listening once more!

    Max

  2. #2
    Senior Member tedvanya's Avatar
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    Re: Händel bis

    Enjoyed. Both. Again.
    The Version 2 to me is better, if your aim is to fool someone to accept it as a "real orchestra" performing it. But again, to me, both are masterful, both are delightful and I could be fooled by both of them, they are that good.
    Thanks Max.

    Ted

  3. #3

    Re: Händel bis

    Thanks, Ted, for listening and for your comment. It required a lot of time and effort to come to that result, often a very disappointing business, but it's always rewarding when the final result is pleasing and satisfying. This said, it wasn't and will never be my intention to fool anybody. A virtual orchestra is a splendid means of self-control and presentation to the outside world, but never a replacement of a real orchestra. I was too long a conductor not to know this...

    Max

  4. #4

    Re: Händel bis

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Hamburg View Post
    ...it wasn't and will never be my intention to fool anybody. A virtual orchestra is a splendid means of self-control and presentation to the outside world, but never a replacement of a real orchestra...
    Thank you for that text, Max - Exactly the point. What we do in the world of "virtual orchestras" is one thing, and a unique, wonderful thing at that. Then there's the world of live orchestras - that's a different thing. The first thing isn't trying to replace the second- but it's certainly inspired by the second.

    And most of all, thanks again for the music - You probably know that the differences between the two takes will be thought of as subtle to most listeners, but that doesn't mean all the extra work wasn't worth it. This sounds absolutely fantastic.

    Randy

  5. #5
    Senior Member tedvanya's Avatar
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    Re: Händel bis

    I have addressed this "fooling" before when I said that we are using a new and unique instrument to produce music. I also said that we can not ever achieve an equivalent to the performance of a musician on a "real" instrument. When I commented on your piece and said "if you wish to fool", I only wanted to make the point that the second variation IF YOU would have wished to fool anybody, it would have a better chance than with the first version.
    So, Randy's oblique disapproval of my comment is just repeating my statement about computer generated music, which, at times gets so close (with tremendous, painstaking work) that it COULD fool even an expert.
    Again,what you have done is so good, it could have fooled me.....So, of course I agree with Randy's comments.

    Ted

  6. #6

    Re: Händel bis

    Quote Originally Posted by tedvanya View Post
    I have addressed this "fooling" before when I said that we are using a new and unique instrument to produce music. I also said that we can not ever achieve an equivalent to the performance of a musician on a "real" instrument. When I commented on your piece and said "if you wish to fool", I only wanted to make the point that the second variation IF YOU would have wished to fool anybody, it would have a better chance than with the first version.
    So, Randy's oblique disapproval of my comment is just repeating my statement about computer generated music, which, at times gets so close (with tremendous, painstaking work) that it COULD fool even an expert.
    Again,what you have done is so good, it could have fooled me.....So, of course I agree with Randy's comments.

    Ted
    Hi Ted,

    No worry, I knew what you wanted to say. I only stated out that it will never be my intention to replace the real thing by a virtual orchestra or instrument. Not so long ago, I strongly protested against the arrogance of giving the sack to all live musicians in favour of the growing potential of virtual music. Now, a couple of decades later, even with the very advanced sound libraries, we (read musicians) have understood the exact position of virtual music. When presenting a new score, it is often more interesting to provide a decent (and more or less realistic) audio file as an illustration of the written score, or in the other case (when there is no score) simply to present the music as such to the candidate user or listener. A virtual recording is a pretty good medium then.
    And we could go on. More and more composers use a combination of both. Virtual recordings for accompaniment, background, effects or atmosphere and real instruments or vocals for solos, emotive lines or real lived music.

    We understand each other and we all agree on this. That's great. And Randy is the most experienced for that matter. He lives in both worlds...

    Cheers,

    Max

  7. #7

    Thumbs up Re: Händel bis

    Outstanding Max.

    fantastic performance: don't underestimate the realism of it! Just add noise, a bit of detuning and reverb imperfections and it should sound as a real recording.

    (In my opinion this 2nd is now definitely superior to the 1st release: as Randy said just subtleties, but they are the key of the difference)

    very well done.

    Fabio

  8. #8

    Re: Händel bis

    Quote Originally Posted by Fabio View Post
    Outstanding Max.

    fantastic performance: don't underestimate the realism of it! Just add noise, a bit of detuning and reverb imperfections and it should sound as a real recording.

    (In my opinion this 2nd is now definitely superior to the 1st release: as Randy said just subtleties, but they are the key of the difference)

    very well done.

    Fabio
    Thanks, Fabio. I'm glad you enjoyed it. As I've said earlier, it's only study material, but a little "Harnoncourt" touch (free interpretation of a compact score in the baroque tradition) always adds something personal which makes it just a bit different...

    Max

  9. #9

    Re: Händel bis

    Outstanding Max.

    fantastic performance: don't underestimate the realism of it! Just add noise, a bit of detuning and reverb imperfections and it should sound as a real recording.
    And this is for cake's top, Max:

    http://www.virtuasonic.com/noise_at_the_concert.htm
    Fabio
    Arrigo Beyle / Milanese / Lived, wrote, loved -- Stendhal
    Being Italian is a full-time job -- B. Severgnini

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