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Topic: Garritan Year End Sale-$50 off COMB, JABB, World, GPO

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  1. #1

  2. #2

    Re: Garritan Year End Sale-$50 off COMB, JABB, World, GPO

    Does anyone know where the JABB saxophone and brass samples come from? Are they the same as in COMB2?

    Art
    Arthur J. Michaels
    https://www.facebook.com/composerarthurjmichaels

    Finale 2000 through Finales 25.4 (currently using Finale 25.4)
    Garritan COMB2, GPO4, GPO5, Audacity 2.1.3
    Core i7 860 @ 2.80 GHz, 8.0 GB RAM, Windows 10 Home Premium x64
    Dell 2408 WFP, 1920x1200
    M-Audio Delta Audiophile 2496
    M-Audio AV-40 monitors

  3. #3

    Re: Garritan Year End Sale-$50 off COMB, JABB, World, GPO

    Quote Originally Posted by gogreen1 View Post
    Does anyone know where the JABB saxophone and brass samples come from? Are they the same as in COMB2?

    Art
    My understanding is that there were complete sample recording sessions done for JABB. The instruments sure sound very different to me than the ones in COMB - more detailed and complex. The Saxes and Brass are the stars of JABB.

    Randy

  4. #4

    Re: Garritan Year End Sale-$50 off COMB, JABB, World, GPO

    Oh snap.... pulled the trigger four days too soon and bought World for full price! When it came down to the last weekend before Christmas I figured there wasn't going to be a sale this year and went ahead.

    Wonder if I can get the diff returned?

    I'll send a note to Customer Service and ask.

    k
    Cheers,

    Kevin F..

    KM Frye- (SOCAN)
    Music Director- Four Seasons Musical Theatre- 2016

    Bella Vista Studios
    Canada

    GPO4, JABB3, Garritan World Inst, REAPER, Roland VS2480 DAW

  5. #5

    Re: Garritan Year End Sale-$50 off COMB, JABB, World, GPO

    My understanding is that there were complete sample recording sessions done for JABB. The instruments sure sound very different to me than the ones in COMB - more detailed and complex. The Saxes and Brass are the stars of JABB.
    Thanks, Randy. That means the sounds gotta be different. I'm thinking of going for JABB with the year-end sale, but only if it provides me with sounds I don't already own.

    Also, I wonder if using some of the JABB saxes and brasses would help my concert band scores sound less "blippy" initially in Finale/Aria. Any idea about that? The COMB2 saxes, for just some instruments, are very harsh. I think using some of the woodwinds and brass from GPO4 in my concert band works helps, too.
    Arthur J. Michaels
    https://www.facebook.com/composerarthurjmichaels

    Finale 2000 through Finales 25.4 (currently using Finale 25.4)
    Garritan COMB2, GPO4, GPO5, Audacity 2.1.3
    Core i7 860 @ 2.80 GHz, 8.0 GB RAM, Windows 10 Home Premium x64
    Dell 2408 WFP, 1920x1200
    M-Audio Delta Audiophile 2496
    M-Audio AV-40 monitors

  6. #6
    Senior Member
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    Re: Garritan Year End Sale-$50 off COMB, JABB, World, GPO

    Art, Just a suggestion, if the CAMB saxes sound too harsh, try EQ'ing them a little bit to tame the frequencies that are bothering you. I've used these saxes in concert band mockups, and I was happy with them.

    FWIW, the saxes and brass in JABB are a little too thin sounding for my tastes. This is probably because in JABB they are individual instruments, in CAMB they're multi-player sections.

  7. #7

    Re: Garritan Year End Sale-$50 off COMB, JABB, World, GPO

    Art, Just a suggestion, if the CAMB saxes sound too harsh, try EQ'ing them a little bit to tame the frequencies that are bothering you. I've used these saxes in concert band mockups, and I was happy with them.
    Thanks, Jeff. So far, to smooth the attacks, I've been using Finale's midi tool--with success about 50% of the time. The default key velocity is 64, and I've been averaging resetting that to about 50. I've also been staggering the start/stop times, but that, too, works in Finale only about half the time.

    Is this what you mean by EQing?
    Arthur J. Michaels
    https://www.facebook.com/composerarthurjmichaels

    Finale 2000 through Finales 25.4 (currently using Finale 25.4)
    Garritan COMB2, GPO4, GPO5, Audacity 2.1.3
    Core i7 860 @ 2.80 GHz, 8.0 GB RAM, Windows 10 Home Premium x64
    Dell 2408 WFP, 1920x1200
    M-Audio Delta Audiophile 2496
    M-Audio AV-40 monitors

  8. #8

    Re: Garritan Year End Sale-$50 off COMB, JABB, World, GPO

    Quote Originally Posted by gogreen1 View Post
    ...I wonder if using some of the JABB saxes and brasses would help my concert band scores sound less "blippy" initially in Finale...
    Art, to be perfectly frank, I could not guarantee you at all that using JABB will make band renderings from Finale sound less "blippy." Earlier tonight, I spent time on this very topic on a thread at the new MM Garritan Forum. A Finale user who knows nothing about MIDI, and doesn't user a keyboard or any DAW software is disappointed that he can't make his Finale projects using JABB sound anything like the demos. I explain to him that the problem is those JABB instruments really need to be actually Played - the notes can't just be triggered via a notation score with insufficient help via dynamic markings and MIDI Tool work. When they're played on a keyboard, using all the MIDI controllers as outlined and explained in the JABB manual, then they can sound great. But, in my opinion - Only then can they sound great.

    Take a look at my replies:

    JABB Brass Tutorial

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Turner View Post
    ...the saxes and brass in JABB are a little too thin sounding for my tastes. This is probably because in JABB they are individual instruments, in CAMB they're multi-player sections.
    Oh - well, begging your pardon, Jeff, but this is incorrect information. In COMB, there are three versions of the Brass and Sax instruments. There are Soloists, there are Group patches that you're referring to, then there are KS instruments where you can switch from Solo to Group.

    What I use are the JABB soloists, because to me they sound like more complex, natural sounding samples, and then I use COMB group patches to fill out when I want for ensembles.

    In the past year there have been several wonderful examples of JABB being used in DAW software with very musical, organic sounding results. There are bigger bands represented in some of those posts, but here is a humble one from me which has been posted numerous times. Here it is again, because it's one of the few all-JABB recordings I've done:

    Honey Pie

    The other posts that can be searched for in The Listening Room demonstrate even more dramatically how good JABB can sound, but I have that file of mine handy, so I offer it again.

    Art, I cannot guarantee that you would find the JABB soloists any better than what you have in COMB - I think they're better, but that's my subjective opinion. I really feel that the bottom line issue is that using either of those Libraries in Finale, and relying totally on Finale for rendering a recording, just can't produce better than adequate results. I really feel these instruments need to be Played, with Mod Wheel, Pitch Bend, AfterTouch (for vibrato) and all the other MIDI controllers in full play in order for the sample sets to come to life - and that's just not completely possible in any notation program

    Randy

  9. #9

    Re: Garritan Year End Sale-$50 off COMB, JABB, World, GPO

    Quote Originally Posted by gogreen1 View Post
    Thanks, Jeff. So far, to smooth the attacks, I've been using Finale's midi tool--with success about 50% of the time. The default key velocity is 64, and I've been averaging resetting that to about 50. I've also been staggering the start/stop times, but that, too, works in Finale only about half the time.

    Is this what you mean by EQing?
    Hello again, Art - Your new post went up while I was composing reply # 8. I'm sure Jeff will join in again when he can, but while I'm here I'll add my reply - No, that isn't what he means by EQ.

    EQ stands for Equalization - and that doesn't apply to MIDI, but to Audio. It's something we're dealing with all the time in DAW software, but can be accessed in Finale also via the EQ settings in ARIA's Controls window. You just turn the Equalizer on, then either subtract or add (subtracting is always what you want to try first) - the low, mid, or high frequency controllers. That's simply a more sophisticated "bass/treble" control like we've had forever in stereo amplifiers. If something seems to have too many highs in it, then attenuate the highs with that control. If a sound is too bassy to your ears (as it sounds in a mix, not soloed), then turn down the bass control. The mid-frequency control is more sophisticated, because it has a dial for trying out different frequencies in the audio spectrum, then a Gain control for turning that frequency up or down. All those controls are something to feel out - you just try settings, using that simple logic I just outlined, and listening to the results. If it sounds better, then use those settings.

    The velocity control you're talking about controls the Attack of notes. That's how fast a note starts. There isn't one velocity setting which is "right"--In a good MIDI track, each note will have a different velocity setting than the note next to it. When you actually Play a track via a keyboard, that variety of velocities is naturally achieved because of how hard or soft you play the notes on your keyboard. When you're a musician, you can't help but play the emphasized notes with a harder touch - that results in a higher velocity, and that makes for a faster "harsher" attack. That's the theory of that. There's NO WAY that having a global setting of 50 would sound right. That's very low, causing slow rather mushy attacks. You'll want many of yours notes to be 100 and over. But, if you can play a keyboard, all that comes naturally. If you don't, you still have to understand the theory so that when you edit your velocities, you'll know which notes should higher velocities, and which should have lower.

    Staggering the start times of notes is a very good thing to also be doing, because once again, it's something else which is naturally varied when music is actually performed/played. When you edit MIDI, you can use your musician's sense to know when it's good for notes to be early, when it's good to have them late.

    I don't know why the Finale MIDI tool should only be working "half the time"--do you mean it doesn't always function right, or that it's just half the time when you can hear the difference?

    Well - It's not what notation users want to hear usually, but I'll still go ahead and encourage you to think about getting more into DAW software for making good demos. Obviously Finale can't be beat for making great looking scores, but there just seems to be a very definitely finite limit to how good it's recorded renderings can sound. If you can learn to export MIDI from Finale and then loosen up the works in a recording program, and really producing those MIDI files, I know you would have a lot more satisfaction from your results.

    Randy

  10. #10
    Senior Member Tom_Davis's Avatar
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    Re: Garritan Year End Sale-$50 off COMB, JABB, World, GPO

    Wait - "If you can learn to export MIDI from Finale and then loosen up the works in a recording program..." what?

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