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Topic: VSL Tool & Sibelius (Legato tool won't play 2nd note)

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  1. #1

    VSL Tool & Sibelius (Legato tool won\'t play 2nd note)

    I\'ve been meaning to post a demo of the LEGATO tool using the supplied TP giga patch and legato tool. First off, I must say I love how well this works..

    That said, I am playing around with one of the samples and found the following....

    I have a LEGATO sample loaded and am using Sibelius to reconstruct a Harmony line (2nd, 3rd inversion, etc).

    I have a WHOLE note in Measure 1, (TP_performance,trumpet as supplied in Demo Cube)....and a WHOLE note again in measure 2, but it seems that the legato tool only plays the first note and then the 3r note (measure 3).

    It WILL NOT play the 2nd instance of the note within Sibelius.

    Since Sibelius is a great way to write score, it is imperative that the Legato tool work for a repeated note. I\'m sure this is something I am missing and would appreciate any feed back regarding this and it could be something as simple as a aticulation symbol, but since it plays notes 1, 3 and 4 (all different locations), I\'m wondering what it could be.

    Thanks,
    fe

    You can see a snap shot of this mock harmony here:
    http://www.filmtv.biz/music/Dukerschein/forumimages/snapshot.jpg

  2. #2

    Re: VSL Tool & Sibelius (Legato tool won\'t play 2nd note)

    I think the VSL tool needs a certain note off time to respond again. I think there are 3 solutions to your problem.

    1) Make it a shorter note (fx. a dotted half note and an 8th note - slurred together) (so you get an 8th note rest just before the next bar)

    2) use the piano sustain pedal symbol between the first note and the repeated note.

    3) lower the legato treshhold in the VSL tool, and lower the release time. Try the lowest settings first, if it doesnt work up it a bit.


    This is all I can think of right now.

    Good luck,


    Thomas

  3. #3

    Re: VSL Tool & Sibelius (Legato tool won\'t play 2nd note)

    Originally posted by filmtvbiz:
    I\'ve been meaning to post a demo of the LEGATO tool using the supplied TP giga patch and legato tool. First off, I must say I love how well this works..
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Frankii,

    If you were to look at these two notes in a piano roll view, you would probably see that the time between first E ending (Midi:note off) and the second note beginning (Midi:note on) is less then threshold set in the performance tool for this legato instrument. So, what the PT says to itself is \"OK, I\'ve just received the Note Off for the E6, now I am going to start my legato threshold timer and if I see a new Note On before it expires, I\'m going to cause a special legato sample to be played - the one from E6 to whatever the next Note On that I get is.\" Tick Tick Tick. \"Incoming! OK, I got an E6 Note On. Now, what legato sample goes from E6 to E6? Hey! I don\'t have one!\" This guy wants me to play a legato sample going from E6 to E6. I guess I won\'t play anything. Rules are rules\"

    Sorry for the radio play. What\'s happening is the PT thinks you want to play two notes of the same pitch as legato. Two notes of the same pitch, of course cannot be played legato in this sense. The solution is to slightly shorten the duration of the first E. With a piano roll you simple drag the end of the first note to the left. I imagine Sibelius doesn\'t have a piano roll so you might need to ties some notes together or use dot notation. The other and best option is to set the thresholds for this instrument towards 0. This type of thing doesn\'t normally happen when you are playing midi in but is very possible with other entry methods since they probably assume you want a whole note played for the full four beats. Hope this make sense.

  4. #4

    Re: VSL Tool & Sibelius (Legato tool won\'t play 2nd note)

    Originally posted by Thomas_J:

    2) use the piano sustain pedal symbol between the first note and the repeated note.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Thomas,
    You beat me to it. Could you explain your second option?

  5. #5

    Re: VSL Tool & Sibelius (Legato tool won\'t play 2nd note)

    A solution shouldn\'t be too hard here.

    Sibelius has some options for the way that normal, legato/slurs are played. You can adjust the percent of note duration, as well as the maximum adjustment in seconds (to keep really long notes from being over adjusted). You\'ll find the controls in the Play|Performance dialog (Shift-P).

    The default is 100% for both normal and slurs. Changing it to something like 80% and 98% may do the trick.

    If that doesn\'t work, save the work as a MIDI file and open it in your sequencer. As stated above, you can easily see what\'s going on in the pieno roll.

    And, finally, the VSL tool can have it\'s parameters adjusted (or so I\'ve read).

    BTW, the Sibelius 3.0 -> 3.1 update is available. No problems at all with the update on my XP machine.

  6. #6

    Re: VSL Tool & Sibelius (Legato tool won\'t play 2nd note)

    Thanks for all the replies, I\'ll try all of them and see what transpires. Of course, it\'s a mock file and I\'m utilizing the demo cube that I recently received and I wanted to be sure that Sibelius would work well with this sample set.

    Thanks again and will keep you posted.

    Cheers,
    frankii

  7. #7

    Re: VSL Tool & Sibelius (Legato tool won\'t play 2nd note)

    Originally posted by JonFairhurst:

    BTW, the Sibelius 3.0 -> 3.1 update is available. No problems at all with the update on my XP machine.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I got the update last week, and a courtesy email today, but thanks just the same.

    Since I tend to use Sibelius more often now (score), I tried the Sibelius setting first and this did the trick! Thanks.

    That said, since there are other Sibelius users, perhaps you can tell me why Sibelius sometimes switches my loaded giga instruments around in Gigastudio. I\'ve posted this over at Sibelius too.

    What happens is, I\'ll have (for example) several staves (Sib. 3.1), with three giga files loaded, then I\'ll move a note, or click on the mixer (in Sib 3.1), and suddenly, all my instruments in Giga (Ports) are mixed up.

    Any ideas?

    Thanks again.

  8. #8

    Re: VSL Tool & Sibelius (Legato tool won\'t play 2nd note)

    Ahh. The old Giga switcheroo.

    Giga responds to program changes on every port and channel. It\'s actually a great advantage. You can write \"~P1,3\" in Sibelius\' technique text (select a note, the \"Ctrl-T\") and Sibelius will send a program change, and Giga will respond. You can go articulation crazy that way. (BTW, \"~P1,3\" would change the instrument on that channel to bank 1, program 3. The tilde hides the text when you print the score.)

    To avoid unwanted changes, make sure that the mixer settings in Sibelius for each staff\'s channel, port, bank and program are exactly the way you have things set in Giga.

    The easiest way to make this happen is to make a custom \"sound set\" in Sibelius to match your template in Giga. That will automatically set the ports, banks and programs correctly. Sibelius will still assign channels in default order, but the sounds will be correct for each staff. If the switcheroo still bugs you, you\'ll need to manually set the channels in the mixer. (I generally do this to keep things well organized.)

    I don\'t know if there\'s a way to get Sibelius to filter out program change messages, or to get Giga to ignore them. I wouldn\'t do this though, as the ability to use many articulations per staff/channel is really powerful.

    I hope this is helpful.

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