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Topic: VSL in USA?

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  1. #1

    VSL in USA?

    Does anyone know if the Vienna Library has reached America yet? Just wondering who\'s got it and if so what do you think?

  2. #2

    Re: VSL in USA?

    Ilio just sent me some email saying that the Demo Cube is now here. Should get mine Monday. . .

    I asked them if the full Library is here. Will let you know as soon as I hear from them.

    Dennis

  3. #3

    Re: VSL in USA?

    I have it.

    Phenomenal.

  4. #4

    Re: VSL in USA?

    I have the earlier demo with the Piccolo Trumpet & Bassoon. Clean stuff but not amazing so far IMHO.

    What Sharmy is saying is most interesting. I find it hard to imagine how anyone can improve on Sam Horns or Dan Dean Brass Ensembles or GOS & Sonic Implants. Yes The SI Strings eat up voices but the programming layers are a very nice thing. I really dont know if I need the Vienna Strings but I sure need the Harp, Woodwinds and Tympani. Some earlier libraries are going to become useless very soon.

    You might note that the Vienna Strings DO NOT include Sordino. And where is the English Horn etc. For over $ 3,000 thats a lot of cash to spend and still be missing some key instruments.

  5. #5

    Re: VSL in USA?

    One thing you guys have to remember about VSL, is that many instruments and articulations are constantly being added to the library. Obviously that doesn\'t work for you if you need it \"now\", but its a good thing to keep in mind.

    as for the 2nd violins thing, there\'s more than enough samples to create 1st, 2nd, and 3rd violins.

    I\'ve got no real clue what KH brass sounds like, since there really hasn\'t been a demo that, IMO, shows it off. everything posted has either been \"quick\", or not really a \"brass demo\". So I\'m counting on you Sharmy [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    As for my thoughts on VSL, while I\'ve got a few orchestral libs and samples, Its still very strong IMO. If you\'ve got a few libs, you might not feel the need for it, but I do have to say that its freaking cool to have a full orchestral library recorded the same way throughout. Add on top of it the multitude of articulations and samples and I\'m finding that I\'m getting more and more impressed with it.

    Then again, you guys know my thoughts on all the libs, they\'re all freaking good libs, its about the right library for the right project nowadays.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
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    Re: VSL in USA?

    I likely won\'t be buying the VSL simply because I fear that just the sheer magnitude and organization of it would prevent me from being able to write good music. For me, going through a huge catalog in order to find the perfect articulation for each note is akin to milking a cow with a car. I believe these super-libraries have reached the point of diminishing returns. You could spend days tweaking out a decent performance, whereas if you just brought in a good player, it would take just a few hours. Besides, with samples you\'ll only \"possibly approach\" the expressiveness of a live performance. Spend $5K+ on another cog in the wheel or a couple hundred bucks for a live player? Well, the choice is easy for me! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    Also, I\'m not really thrilled about this idea of crafting lines from articulations that have been collected over time. So, I\'d create long notes with a selection of samples that were recorded in March and the short notes from samples recorded in July? There are so many variables that can differ from day to day that make this approach counterproductive to crafting an enjoyable performance. Mic position, embouchure, careless engineering, and so on. I only need to direct you to any of the solo woodwind examples on the VSL website to prove this point. The flute sounds like a flute, but it sounds like a poorly edited flute player in that every note has a different embouchure and proximity to the mic. It just doesn\'t sound musical or enjoyable to me. More like, annoying and comical--certainly not the effect that I want my music to reflect! Sure you could saturate it in reverb and disguise this effect, but then it sounds obscured and at that point, why bother?

    All this to say that the \"brute force\" approach isn\'t necessarily the best approach for making music. But then again, neither is using sample libraries! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

    -J

  7. #7

    Re: VSL in USA?

    Another major aspect missing is mutes for the brass. I know the library will constantly evolve, but if you take all the brass instruments and only do straight mutes with all of the existing articulations you double the size of the brass, unless you skimp on articulations. If you do cup mutes, the size doubles again, harmon mutes, etc. I wonder if they\'ve looked at that and decided it wasn\'t worth it?

  8. #8

    Re: VSL in USA?

    Usually I keep out of discussions concerning the Vienna Symphonic Library as long as people talk about matters of taste or feelings. As the Technical Supervisor of this Library I feel bound to contradict unfounded allegations like \"careless engineering\", though.

    IOComposer, your mail shows quite clearly that you didn\'t delve into our concepts yet - which is ok. But as you know - it\'s always the Unknown that makes us \"fear\" (... your word). So please refrain from such bold statements relying on hearsay or pure speculation.

    You\'re kindly invited to read our web-site for more information, to get our demo-cube for first-hand impressions, to discuss our concepts and ideas with us on our forum - or even to drop by in our Silent Stage and the editing studios in Vienna, if you happen to be in the vicinity, to see how meticulously this Library is prepared.

    You may still not like what you hear then (which I doubt ;-) ...), but I\'m sure you would re-consider phrases like the one quoted above.

    All the best,

    /d

    PS - I\'d really like to know the name of the orchestra that plays for \"a couple of hundred bucks\". We could save millions! ;-)

  9. #9

    Re: VSL in USA?

    Sharm,

    I\'m sure KHBass sounds freaking great, I\'m just bummed that no one has posted something that really does it some justice yet. There\'s been a few posts with cool music, but not really a \"brass demo\" per se, and the \"quickies\" from Kirk are not making me happy in the NFX verb.

    DDBE is great too. Its prolly just \"another sound\". SAM Horns also freaking great, so will SAM Bones (which will possibly be my favorite from early listenings). Everything is \"up there\" now. Just to think that this time last year we had no good brass libs.... HA!

    I\'m pretty much in the same boat for KHBrass, I\'m tempted to buy it jsut to hear what it sounds like. I prolly wont be content even when you post a demo, since I still dont think anyone can really tell what a lib is like until they sit down with it.

    IO,

    Its actually not hard to go through the Vienna stuff, and the samples are pretty damn consistant IMO. The flute is especially cool to use the legato tool on.

    The performance tools make it so you can do just about anything (including legato, and some phrase editing/manipulation) by playing realtime on the keyboard. Its pretty spectacular.

    There\'s no lie that it will take a bit of getting used to. You have to learn the basic layout structure. Its not reall anything different than what we\'re already used to. There aren\'t a billion different patches that you have to skim through to get the sound you want. Its more like \"Ok I want violins legato....pull up violins legato\" \"I want the trumpets and bones playing a repetition of E at a medium tempo....pull up TP rep 2 and PA rep 2\", then play the line in liek you would do with any other lib. The editing and performance tools will change the repetition performance in realtime, allowing for about 9 different short notes to alternate.

    For basic composing you dont even have to go that far, jsut load up samples/instruments liek you would normally. Sustains and stacattos, and have a ball. Then loa up the legato/repetition stuff. They\'ll work right off the MIDI you put in with the \"normal\" gig instruments..

    I\'m not gonna tell anyone to buy this lib. Its purely your own choice since there\'s just too much stuff out/coming out and I understand budget concerns, but I\'ll try and help people understand how and why the library works.

    timzy,

    if you ask Herb, Dietz and the guys at VSL, they\'ll tell you that EVERY sound is usefull, and they dont find one thing unimportant, however there are probably priorities for sampling, and a schedule. I\'m sure all users have to do is voice an opinion on what they REALLY REALLY need and they\'d possibly consider changing the schedule to meet those needs.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
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    Re: VSL in USA?

    Originally posted by Dietz:
    Usually I keep out of discussions concerning the Vienna Symphonic Library as long as people talk about matters of taste or feelings. As the Technical Supervisor of this Library I feel bound to contradict unfounded allegations like \"careless engineering\", though.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">lol! Hardly an allegation, simply a factor that comes to mind in my own failures as a library developer. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    IOComposer, your mail shows quite clearly that you didn\'t delve into our concepts yet - which is ok. But as you know - it\'s always the Unknown that makes us \"fear\" (... your word). So please refrain from such bold statements relying on hearsay or pure speculation.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">My fear comes from 15 years of spending thousands and thousands of dollars on these libraries, most of which ultimately only allow me to achieve a demo level mockup of an orchestra. 9 times out of 10, I replace my samples with live instruments, so it\'s getting to the point where why bother with the expensive samples anyway? If it\'s not going to get me 100 percent of the way there then I\'m better off just making my demos with general midi stuff. I\'ve delved into enough of all of the \"concepts\" of sample libraries and in my opinion, a concept is ultimately all it is. Your demos prove this. I don\'t think your samples sound real. I think they sound \"like\" a live orchestra, but they\'re nothing that I listen to and go \"wow...I want to record with THAT orchestra!!\". What\'s missing from your library and from all of these libraries is the life! When I listen to great scores or recordings of great orchestras what excites me is the expressiveness of the performance. The energy of the players putting their all into a collaborative performance. This \"stitching together snippets\" approach doesn\'t make it IMO, because it\'s too mechanical of a process. It is what it is, and that\'s not much more than demo level mockups, in my opinion. I\'d love to be proven wrong, but I can\'t concieve of that happening in a way that\'s more efficient than just hiring live musicians.

    PS - I\'d really like to know the name of the orchestra that plays for \"a couple of hundred bucks\". We could save millions! ;-)
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">For the record, I was actually referring to the solo performances that you demo on your website, not a full orchestra.

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