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Topic: Garritan SFZ files incompatible with Yamaha electronic drums

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  1. #1

    Garritan SFZ files incompatible with Yamaha electronic drums

    I recently purchased an electronic drum set (Yamaha DD65) that I intend to use as a MIDI input for recording songs, using Garritan Jazz and Big Bands 3 as the software synthesizer. However, when I tried triggering Garritan sounds with the DD65, I found that the software would make almost no audible sound (responding perhaps once every 20 hits). On the other hand, certain other software synthesizers (e.g., Cakewalk Dimension Pro) responded to the drum set without a problem.
    I recorded a sequence of drum hits and examined the MIDI events. I discovered that the DD65 was sending MIDI note events of almost vanishingly small duration - 0, 1, or 2 PPQ. The Garritan samples did not respond when I played back this sequence. However, when I manually changed the recorded note lengths to something longer (10 to 100, for example), the Garritan samples DID become audible on playback.
    Because the Garritan samples do not play back when the note lengths were very short, while the Dimension samples do, I infer that there is some characteristic unique to the Garritan .sfz files which prevents it.
    Is there some way I can edit the .sfz files so they will respond when I play the DD65 in real time? For example, consider the following section, which occurs in 'GM Fusion Drum Kit.sfz':

    <global>
    pan_law=no_law
    lovel=1 hivel=127
    lokey=0 hikey=127
    group=0
    polyphony=24
    off_mode=time
    off_time=0.01
    off_shape=0
    off_curve=10

    I wonder about those references to off_mode and off_time. They do not occur in Dimension's .sfz files. Could I edit those values to get the behavior I want?

    Mark H.

  2. #2

    Re: Garritan SFZ files incompatible with Yamaha electronic drums

    Hello, Markhaus

    I wish I had the answer for you, but whenever I delve into doing something with SFZ, it's always a matter of looking around online for info and experimenting. I'm a dabbler with SFZ, no expert.

    Have you just tried the editing you were considering? As long as you safely save a copy of your original SFZ files, there's no danger in re-writing code and seeing if you can work the problem out.

    Here's the Forum for SFZ discussion. If you can't find the info there that you need, maybe you can find contact info for one of the developers so you can directly submit your question.

    SFZ and ARIA Discussions at ariaengine.com

    Randy

  3. #3

    Re: Garritan SFZ files incompatible with Yamaha electronic drums

    Wups- wrong thread....
    Cheers,

    Kevin F..

    KM Frye- (SOCAN)
    Music Director- Four Seasons Musical Theatre- 2016

    Bella Vista Studios
    Canada

    GPO4, JABB3, Garritan World Inst, REAPER, Roland VS2480 DAW

  4. #4

    Re: Garritan SFZ files incompatible with Yamaha electronic drums

    Quote Originally Posted by markhaus2 View Post
    I recently purchased an electronic drum set (Yamaha DD65) that I intend to use as a MIDI input for recording songs, using Garritan Jazz and Big Bands 3 as the software synthesizer. However, when I tried triggering Garritan sounds with the DD65, I found that the software would make almost no audible sound (responding perhaps once every 20 hits). On the other hand, certain other software synthesizers (e.g., Cakewalk Dimension Pro) responded to the drum set without a problem. I recorded a sequence of drum hits and examined the MIDI events. I discovered that the DD65 was sending MIDI note events of almost vanishingly small duration - 0, 1, or 2 PPQ. The Garritan samples did not respond when I played back this sequence. However, when I manually changed the recorded note lengths to something longer (10 to 100, for example), the Garritan samples DID become audible on playback. Because the Garritan samples do not play back when the note lengths were very short, while the Dimension samples do, I infer that there is some characteristic unique to the Garritan .sfz files which prevents it. Is there some way I can edit the .sfz files so they will respond when I play the DD65 in real time? For example, consider the following section, which occurs in 'GM Fusion Drum Kit.sfz': pan_law=no_law lovel=1 hivel=127 lokey=0 hikey=127 group=0 polyphony=24 off_mode=time off_time=0.01 off_shape=0 off_curve=10 I wonder about those references to off_mode and off_time. They do not occur in Dimension's .sfz files. Could I edit those values to get the behavior I want? Mark H.
    Hi Mark, If you are using the GM kits in JABB you can also try this:

    - Perform a Find and Replace for all instances of "loop_mode=no_loop" and replace with "loop_mode=one_shot" Best, Chad

  5. #5

    Re: Garritan SFZ files incompatible with Yamaha electronic drums

    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    Hi Mark, If you are using the GM kits in JABB you can also try this:

    - Perform a Find and Replace for all instances of "loop_mode=no_loop" and replace with "loop_mode=one_shot" Best, Chad
    Thanks for the suggestion, Chad. I'll try it this weekend when I have time to play and post my findings.

    FWIW, I notice that the Dimension instruments that do work with the drum machine already have the "loop_mode=one_shot" specification. Can you explain what this parameter means?

    Mark H.

  6. #6

    Re: Garritan SFZ files incompatible with Yamaha electronic drums

    Quote Originally Posted by markhaus2 View Post
    ..."loop_mode=one_shot" specification. Can you explain what this parameter means?
    Mark H.
    Looks like Chad has it it on the nail for you, Mark. In his absence, I can answer that question.

    A "one shot" sample is a non-looping sample which plays completely when triggered by a note of whatever size. Instead of stopping when the length of the MIDI note is spent, the recording, the sample will play entirely. What's happening right now is those super short MIDI notes from your Yamaha are being interpreted by JABB literally - The sound is only lasting for that split second, so short you can't even hear it. But when you edit your SFZ file as Chad suggests, the drum samples will play completely, like the full second or whatever it is for a snare sample for instance, no matter how short the triggering notes are. See?

    Randy

  7. #7

    Re: Garritan SFZ files incompatible with Yamaha electronic drums

    Makes complete sense. Thanks for your reply, Randy.

    Mark H.

  8. #8

    Re: Garritan SFZ files incompatible with Yamaha electronic drums

    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    Hi Mark, If you are using the GM kits in JABB you can also try this:

    - Perform a Find and Replace for all instances of "loop_mode=no_loop" and replace with "loop_mode=one_shot" Best, Chad
    Just a follow up - I tried Chad's fix, and it works perfectly.
    The only negative side effect is that certain GM 'drum kit' sounds that should really have an endpoint (notably the Samba Whistle) now play clear to the end of the sample. Since there are only a few of these sounds in the .sfz file, and they use MIDI notes not accessible from my Yamaha drum machine anyway, I will manually set them back to the original 'no_loop' state.

    Thanks again,
    Mark H.

  9. #9

    Re: Garritan SFZ files incompatible with Yamaha electronic drums

    Quote Originally Posted by markhaus2 View Post
    Just a follow up - I tried Chad's fix, and it works perfectly.
    The only negative side effect is that certain GM 'drum kit' sounds that should really have an endpoint (notably the Samba Whistle) now play clear to the end of the sample. Since there are only a few of these sounds in the .sfz file, and they use MIDI notes not accessible from my Yamaha drum machine anyway, I will manually set them back to the original 'no_loop' state.

    Thanks again,
    Mark H.
    Mark,

    Despite the fact that this solution worked for you, I'm still curious how that could've happened. These sfz files also have ample envelope release times set, so you shouldn't have this issue in the first place.

    The programmers here would like to have a MIDI file recording from your e-drum. I'll give you my email throug PM.
    Éric Patenaude, Plogue Art et Technologie Inc.
    Montreal. http://www.plogue.com

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