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beatpete
04-01-2008, 10:08 AM
http://garritan.com/steinway_demos.html

JohnGrant
04-01-2008, 01:20 PM
Who's going first?

JG

JohnGrant
04-01-2008, 02:19 PM
No Takers? OK.... Well.... Can't comment on playability, 'cause I don't own the sample (yet), only on the demos. In fact, I'll comment on only one demo: the Liszt Consolation No.3 in Db Major. I compared the live recording on the Steinway sample with one of my Great Pianists versions: the Bolet account, which has a rep. and also, pretty good Steinway sound. I didn't expect the sample pianist to measure up to Bolet, one of the greatest Liszt interpreters of this and the last century; but for a 128 kps account, the sample was definitely convincing. Credit to the pianist, however, because you really do have to know how to finesse a sampled piano when rendering a piece live. Well done, pianist and sample. I'm ordering.

JG

MikeInFL
04-02-2008, 02:55 PM
the demos are superb! I like the tone quality, sounds more like a true Steinway then any other piano samples I've heard. However, I need to hear more of the tone when playing ppp, I'm not convinced I like the soft tone yet

JohnGrant
04-02-2008, 04:40 PM
A few quibbles ..... let's reign in the enthusiasm that always greets the release of a sample! We have a good smattering of rep., at different kps at Garritan's site, but nothing really outstanding. Aesthetic impressions are subjective, but this may be the case of a top tier sample needing top tier midi work, whether purely sequenced or mostly played live. The character is there, no doubt; but don't forget that the "real thing" is intermingled with the sample in a number of the mp3s., and those mp3s sound the best to me.

Personally, I think it's a whole lot more revealing to hear the sample ONLY, and, then, to hear the same midi file played and recorded live from beginning to end. Unfortunately, that's not possible unless the piano is equipped with a midi piano player (now more and more available--heard one today in fact--and Bos and Yammy have been perfecting the technology for awhile).

All of which raises the vital question: with the piano player midi add on machines coming onto market, it becomes possible to play midi files through the real thing, and then to record the result afterwards, thus getting us incredibly close to untying the Gordian Knot of midi-piano recording: a completely live recording of a midi-perfected piano file!

JG

MikeInFL
04-03-2008, 12:17 AM
A few quibbles ..... let's reign in the enthusiasm that always greets the release of a sample! We have a good smattering of rep., at different kps at Garritan's site, but nothing really outstanding. Aesthetic impressions are subjective, but this may be the case of a top tier sample needing top tier midi work, whether purely sequenced or mostly played live. The character is there, no doubt; but don't forget that the "real thing" is intermingled with the sample in a number of the mp3s., and those mp3s sound the best to me.

Personally, I think it's a whole lot more revealing to hear the sample ONLY, and, then, to hear the same midi file played and recorded live from beginning to end. Unfortunately, that's not possible unless the piano is equipped with a midi piano player (now more and more available--heard one today in fact--and Bos and Yammy have been perfecting the technology for awhile).

All of which raises the vital question: with the piano player midi add on machines coming onto market, it becomes possible to play midi files through the real thing, and then to record the result afterwards, thus getting us incredibly close to untying the Gordian Knot of midi-piano recording: a completely live recording of a midi-perfected piano file!

JG

You just gave me an idea. Yes, the midi add on is truly the most authentic way to get the most real piano sound, since it plays a real piano! The problem most people have is they do not have a Steinway piano- so here's my idea- offer a service to perform the midi piano files on a real Steinway! They send you their midi piano file, you have it play on a Steinway (of your own obviously), record it, and send it back. Could be a profitable venture! For one, no samples will come as close to the real piano. What do you think?

Per Lichtman
04-03-2008, 07:58 AM
Not to diminish the accomplishment here, because the world needs more good piano sample libraries and Garritan is always expanding a composer's palette of available sounds in many directions, but I think that the Bach Prelude in E demo demonstrates more of the skill in crossfading between two performances and the limitations of the library then the strengths of it.

In the Bach Prelude in E demo I could feel my body and emotions engage and disconnect as the fade went back and forth between the live recording and the sampled one. The warmth, the width, the richness and body of the live recording really outshone the precise but narrow sound of the sampled piano. I found this was more of an issue with the highest and lowest notes, especially at higher velocities/dynamics than in the midrange.

But these are early demos and it is late at night: I reserve the right to amend my opinion at a later time and congratulate Garritan on adding yet another color to the digital composer's aural palette.

JohnGrant
04-03-2008, 09:21 AM
Been done, I'll bet...

Amadeus
04-03-2008, 01:05 PM
I'm a completely unbiased young pianist, and i've been waiting to hear the samples every day since the Steinway library was hyped on the Garritan main page. When I read that it was authorized by Steinway themselves, I was curious as to how rigid they would be, and if this would mean it was more faithful in its resonance, timber, etc.

So, I finally heard the demos for the first time today through my headphones, and i'm not impressed. . .At all; since the product was delayed about 1,500 times, I simply thought it was going to be better than what we got; the perspectives sound dull and empty, the velocity layers sound lifeless and the resonance is really weak, especially when it's meant to emulate a fine grand piano in an acoustically tuned environment.

In Chopin's Scherzo no.2 (the first demo on the page), the fortissimo layers sound very compressed and weak, and the pianissimo samples sound like they were overdubbed at a later time, from another session; there's no BLENDING, no sustain, no resonance, no expression. There were a few demos on the page of live rendering, and I have to give it to the players and say that they mostly did a good job of playing (given digital instruments), but the library did absolutely nothing to bring their performance TO LIFE, and make me say "I want to use this library."

I was really hoping for something better, but overall I have to say that this sample library is completely lifeless, and doesn't even compare to the Galaxy II Steinway, Synthogy Ivory, or even the Eastwest Bosendorfer 290 VSTi; at least that one sounded like it was in the proper environment, while the Galaxy II pianos have a well-blended set of samples, a present tone, realistic resonance and LIFE to them that this library simply doesn't offer. Gee, even the Garritan Personal Orchestra Steinway sounds much better and playable than this "dedicated" library (based on songs uploaded to this forum), and that one has sample looping/stretching.

1 and 1/2 out of 5 stars.

Aboensis
04-03-2008, 03:47 PM
Not to diminish the accomplishment here, because the world needs more good piano sample libraries and Garritan is always expanding a composer's palette of available sounds in many directions, but I think that the Bach Prelude in E demo demonstrates more of the skill in crossfading between two performances and the limitations of the library then the strengths of it.

In the Bach Prelude in E demo I could feel my body and emotions engage and disconnect as the fade went back and forth between the live recording and the sampled one. The warmth, the width, the richness and body of the live recording really outshone the precise but narrow sound of the sampled piano. I found this was more of an issue with the highest and lowest notes, especially at higher velocities/dynamics than in the midrange.

But these are early demos and it is late at night: I reserve the right to amend my opinion at a later time and congratulate Garritan on adding yet another color to the digital composer's aural palette.

I completely agree with what is said in the quote above. Nevertheless I am eagerly waiting to get my professional version already ordered in the "Go round" before christmas. :) I even bought a new external hard drive yesterday to be used with it.

JohnGrant
04-03-2008, 05:03 PM
Yes, yes, yes..... but what I'm looking for in a piano sample is not perfection, although I'd be happy to have it. Instead, I'm looking for a sample that, if manipulated in the right way, that is faithful to the instrument AND can make something beautiful. So, you can give the creator of the sample a little scope for imperfection, as long as something really expressive, and real sounding, can be made out of the sample.

A lot of interesting stuff, well, even beautiful stuff, has come out of samples that don't actually sound like real pianos. The stuff sounds great, but "great" in its own way; not "great" as in great piano music, unless you want to redefine completely what counts as "piano music."

There's a dangerous middle ground that, I think, many attempts at making midi files (synth or live) occupy: you get used to the unpiano-like sound of the sample and start "hearing" a real piano where in fact nothing like it is actually being heard. It's "accommodation," which ears readily do. If you've listened to a lot of solo piano (the real thing) and you go back to some of the sampled stuff, let your ears "get natural," so to speak, you often find yourself admitting that what you thought was a good piano sample actually was nothing of the sort.

Only the test of time tells.

JG

DPDAN
04-03-2008, 06:23 PM
When a topic is going in a direction as this one is right now, I would usually start my post with... "with all due respect" but I won't, I try to live by the words,... "if you can't say ANYTHING nice, don't say anything at all."

It is difficult to respond to such a crazy post. I am the one who did the Scherzo you are critical of and sorry you did not like the rendition. It was matched very close to a Yundi Li performance of the Scherzo.

You mention you are a young pianist and perhaps your comments should be taken accordingly. I have recorded many Steinways over my 33 years of engineering. Having actually played this piano (and many other sampled pianos) - I can say it is the most TRUE TO LIFE sampled Steinway piano - period.

There is simply no comparison between the GPO piano and this Steinway.

Here we have the most meticulously tuned and "dialed in" piano ever sampled, under the direction of Steinway and Sons at the finest piano concert hall. I beg any of you to find a piano that has sympathetic resonance AND proportional sustain pedaling, life-like multi-stage release samples, and meticulous tuning (under the direction of Steinway's best technician).

Sorry but, have you guys listened at all to the tuning of some of these "other" newly released sample pianos?

In this post, I have completely drifted from the idea of...
"if you can't say something nice" but I for one really like the Garritan Steinway, no it isn't perfect, but I find it's sound very nice.

Have a nice day.
Dan

Journeyman
04-03-2008, 06:52 PM
Is this piano only suited to classical music? I ask because unless I'm missing something, all of the official Garritan demos are of classical music. I've never been able to discern how a sampled piano would sound playing pop, rock or jazz, while listening to a classical demo. How about it Gary?

Garritan
04-04-2008, 05:14 PM
Is this piano only suited to classical music? I ask because unless I'm missing something, all of the official Garritan demos are of classical music. I've never been able to discern how a sampled piano would sound playing pop, rock or jazz, while listening to a classical demo. How about it Gary?Journeyman.

I posted a few more Authorized Steinway demos with a short jazz piece by W. Michael Japp and also a popular piece by Dan Kury:

http://www.garritan.com/steinway_demos.html (http://www.garritan.com/steinway_demos.html)

More coming soon...

Enjoy!

Gary Garritan

runamuck
04-04-2008, 05:48 PM
I just can't help myself in saying there sure are an awful lot of snap judgments going on here.

I really don't pay any attention to such comments as far as whether or not I would choose to purchase something or not. But it's just not fair to Mr Garritan and Steinway that people draw conclusions based on very little data.

And anyone who has listened to plenty of demos and compared those demos to one's own, personal experience with a sample library, knows how limited demos actually are.

So, as far as I'm concerned, here it is: shut up until you know what you're talking about.

Jim McCarthy

etLux
04-04-2008, 05:52 PM
He may have been born yesterday, but he stayed up all night...!

I do believe your assessment of the sound will change diametrically
if and when you actually work with the G.Steinway.

I can sympathize with your conclusions, of course -- the demos
posted thus far are very, very early... most done by people like me
with very modest recording skills.

Perhaps a little patience is due while the demos are fleshed out.
Or until one has had a chance to use the product personally.

My best,


David
www.DavidSosnowski.com

Per Lichtman
04-04-2008, 05:58 PM
I just can't help myself in saying there sure are an awful lot of snap judgments going on here.

I really don't pay any attention to such comments as far as whether or not I would choose to purchase something or not. But it's just not fair to Mr Garritan and Steinway that people draw conclusions based on very little data.

And anyone who has listened to plenty of demos and compared those demos to one's own, personal experience with a sample library, knows how limited demos actually are.

So, as far as I'm concerned, here it is: shut up until you know what you're talking about.

Jim McCarthy

For my own part, I was very clear on the limited extent of the topic I was addressing and also of the fact that further information/listening might change my perspective. I do not feel there is anything wrong with people giving their thoughtful first impressions of a library and I think we have all had very positive first impressions of our favorite Garritan products at some point or another. This wasn't one of those times and I hope that further demos showcase more of the strengths of the library as I have yet to hear Garritan do anything halfway. That said, we will all have different preferences in terms of a piano sound. I mean, even my girlfriend and I tend to prefer different mic setups in piano recordings and we both have developed ears. There were an awful lot of different pianos in the practice rooms at college and she would always go back to her favorite... and it was on a different floor of the building than mine. :)

Just another 2 cents from this end.

Journeyman
04-04-2008, 07:13 PM
Journeyman.

I posted a few more Authorized Steinway demos with a short jazz piece by W. Michael Japp and also a popular piece by Dan Kury

Thank you Gary!

Ashermusic
04-05-2008, 09:48 AM
What a Steinway sounds like in a classical hall is one thing.

However, in the world of recorded music for anything other than trying to capture that, believe it or not people, engineers do things like EQ the sampled piano, compress the sampled piano, etc. to get a sound that fits well into the track.

So unless you are one of the handful of folks who are going to try to do a realistic performance of a solo classical piano piece on a sampled piano and put it up for sale, whether it is a real piano or the Garritan Steinway. the QL pianos, ArtVista VGP 2, or any other, the real test will be how well does the sampled piano handle being EQ'd, compressed, etc. so that it can sound suitable for many genres and how good does it feel when you play it so that your performance is inspired by it.

I played Gary's Steinway at NAMM and judging from what I heard and felt in that admittedly imperfect environment,I think this is one of the better offerings out there. Although personally I am perfectly happen with my present combo of ArtVista VGP 2, Maljmso, and Sampletekk 7 Seas Grand, I am sorely tempted.

NothanUmber
04-05-2008, 10:12 AM
As the market is already crowded with "fit into a mix" pianos in comparison to something that excels at offering everything that's currently sound wise and technically possible for playing (solo classical) piano music I'd be happy if the Steinway library could fill that gap!
I think the number of people that "just" want a wonderful Steinway sound for their personal playing experience and pleasure at home is not just a "handful of folks" - even if perhaps a little bit underrepresentated in this forum :)

Greetings
NothanUmber

Journeyman
04-05-2008, 10:53 AM
For what it's worth, there is a definite divergence in how people think on classically minded and soundtrack minded forums, as opposed to those that play pop, rock or jazz music. (I'm one of the latter.)

Speaking for those that play pop, rock, or jazz; we usually insist that our pianos be recorded as dry as possible-- meaning no reverb or other room ambience (except under special circumstances), so that they can be customized to sit in a track properly AFTER THEY"VE BEEN RECORDED. And recording engineers in that genre would look at as like we're crazy if we bring in anything with room ambiance already printed as part of the sound.

However those in classically minded and soundtrack minded circles seem to prefer that their samples always (or usually) include room ambiance. And when they don't, they usually naively complain about how "thin and uninspiring" a sample library sounds. And things like, "hey, why wasn't that trombone sample recorded in stereo?" Well, trombone is a mono instrument, hence the mono sample. THE ROOM AMBIANCE many be in stereo, but the instrument itself doesn't sound any different when you stand on the left side or the right side.

Those in classically minded and soundtrack minded circles also often want their samples to be recorded "in-place" with regards to Pan Position (Left or Right), to emulate the seating arrangement of orchestral recordings. Those who play pop, rock, or jazz almost always want to reserve choice of panning positioning for the final mix.

I'm not complaining one way or the other. But there are most certainly differences of opinion/philosophy in that regard. By offering a dry sample that can be effected after the fact, Gary has made his piano work for all genres; not just those who are classically minded and soundtrack minded.

My two cents...

xav93
04-05-2008, 04:02 PM
I really like the "Under the lid Perspective" Jazz Improvisation.

Per Lichtman
04-05-2008, 05:14 PM
I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed the "comparing different mic positions on the same piece" demos. They really seem to speak to one of the strengths of the library. I look forward to listening more.

Ashermusic
04-05-2008, 05:20 PM
For what it's worth, there is a definite divergence in how people think on classically minded and soundtrack minded forums, as opposed to those that play pop, rock or jazz music. (I'm one of the latter.)

Speaking for those that play pop, rock, or jazz; we usually insist that our pianos be recorded as dry as possible-- meaning no reverb or other room ambience (except under special circumstances), so that they can be customized to sit in a track properly AFTER THEY"VE BEEN RECORDED. And recording engineers in that genre would look at as like we're crazy if we bring in anything with room ambiance already printed as part of the sound.

However those in classically minded and soundtrack minded circles seem to prefer that their samples always (or usually) include room ambiance. And when they don't, they usually naively complain about how "thin and uninspiring" a sample library sounds. And things like, "hey, why wasn't that trombone sample recorded in stereo?" Well, trombone is a mono instrument, hence the mono sample. THE ROOM AMBIANCE many be in stereo, but the instrument itself doesn't sound any different when you stand on the left side or the right side.

Those in classically minded and soundtrack minded circles also often want their samples to be recorded "in-place" with regards to Pan Position (Left or Right), to emulate the seating arrangement of orchestral recordings. Those who play pop, rock, or jazz almost always want to reserve choice of panning positioning for the final mix.

I'm not complaining one way or the other. But there are most certainly differences of opinion/philosophy in that regard. By offering a dry sample that can be effected after the fact, Gary has made his piano work for all genres; not just those who are classically minded and soundtrack minded.

My two cents...

Room ambience can always be added. if it is not much there. It cannot be taken out if is there more than you want.

Gary has made the smart choice IMHO.

Journeyman
04-05-2008, 08:27 PM
Room ambience can always be added. if it is not much there. It cannot be taken out if is there more than you want.

Gary has made the smart choice IMHO.

I thought that I just said that.

Per Lichtman
04-05-2008, 09:12 PM
I thought that I just said that.

It sounds better when two people say it. ;)

JohnGrant
04-06-2008, 08:53 AM
It's fully intended to be a "classical" piano sound in a huge, echoey "classical" concert hall. That's what Steinway & Sons wanted it to sound like.

Me, myself, that thin classical tone isn't the way I picture the Steinway D sound - and I've played a few. I love it up close and personal, with 20Hz bass power and majesty, two handed chords that sing like a choir of angels and the most delicate pppp to thunderous ffff dynamic range. Every model D sounds a little different, but I don't like that lingering cathedral reverb or thin distant miked classical tone, but that's very probably what Steinway & Sons wanted in keeping with their proud classical reputation.

......

For goodness sake, can't someone post a sensible demo link to a 24 bit or 16 bit linear WAV render of basic notes or arpeggios, or live playing (not sequenced heavy classics or weird avante garde muzik) without reverb, using all five perspectives to render the same file. Pretty please...?


I beg to differ on the first point: that classical equals plenty of reverb. True of some classical recordings, the ones that are recorded in big halls. But completely untrue of most solo classical recordings, which tend to be very flat, actually.

I agree entirely, though, that the verbed sample is well...yes...thin-sounding. On the other hand, it's pretty realistic. A trade off, perhaps, but not one many folks are interested in. And, of course, once it's in the sample, you can't take it out. Verb can be added, but not subtracted.... that's the essential problem with verb.

I've heard a few rotten Steinways, but most Steinways, including the uprights are in general--to my ears--the best sounding pianos out there. The Faziolis are too tinny; the Bos too stringy or nasal-sounding, the Japanese pianos, many of them are nice, but they lack beauty of tone.

It's all subjective in the end, well .... almost. We think a Steinway sounds great maybe because huge chunks of recorded pianos for over one hundred years and in all genres--not just classical--have used Steinway pianos. Our "Western-musical-piano-ear", formed over one hundred years of recordings and concerts, are more accustomed to the Steinway sound than we realize. The ear "thinks" Steinway = "great piano sound" because thats pretty much what our cultural ears have become used to!

Whatever.... we do need some good lived recorded material in all genres to better assess this sample's potential, preferably in high res format, and in exactly the way mentioned above.

JG

Ashermusic
04-06-2008, 11:42 AM
I thought that I just said that.

You did indeed. I was reinforcing it by adding the weight of my great credibility in the professional world. :)

Per Lichtman
04-06-2008, 12:53 PM
I've heard a few rotten Steinways, but most Steinways, including the uprights are in general--to my ears--the best sounding pianos out there. The Faziolis are too tinny; the Bos too stringy or nasal-sounding, the Japanese pianos, many of them are nice, but they lack beauty of tone.


I'm curious to hear your thoughts on Falcone (Falcon) pianos. Back during the very brief time I had to study with John Adams, he was having Hallelujah Junction performed on a pair of pianos and mentioned that there were not many of them in the country and how much I enjoyed them. Now I could have sworn he said "Falcon" but he might have said Falcone. What I do know is that I really enjoyed the way they sounded and have been surprised I haven't heard more people mention them since.

So, any chance you've heard them and could help fill in this gap in my memory? :)

Journeyman
04-06-2008, 01:06 PM
Originally Posted by propianist http://northernsounds.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?p=564442#post564442)
It's fully intended to be a "classical" piano sound in a huge, echoey "classical" concert hall. That's what Steinway & Sons wanted it to sound like.
Ummm....how do you come by this information? Attribution please.

Garritan
04-06-2008, 01:35 PM
Ummm....how do you come by this information? Attribution please. I don't know about echoey "Classical" concert hall.

Steinway and Sons chose the Troy Music Hall. Not because it is a huge, echoey "classical" concert hall, but because it is one of the best-sounding piano halls. Here is the relevant section from the manual about the hall....

In selecting the finest possible recording environment in which to sample this Authorized Steinway Virtual Concert Grand, we scoured the globe for the ultimate piano concert hall. We were fully prepared to travel anywhere and to spare no expense or effort. Our aspiration in this was to secure that “perfect space”; one which would flawlessly showcase the grandeur and excellence—as well as the subtleties and nuances—of the revered concert Steinway.

Hundreds of possibilities were considered, eventually winnowed down to dozens; many of which were visited and evaluated.

But one concert hall consistently rose head-and-shoulders above all the others scrutinized in our search. That “perfect space”, it uncompromisingly met our most stringent acoustical demands and technical requirements. It had likewise proved its worth in the eyes of performing artists, a respected and sought-after performance venue of the finest pianists for well over a century.

The Troy Savings Bank Music Hall, our choice, is a gleaming gem of a space in a stately old upstate New York town. It was completed in April, 1875—just twenty-two years after the founding of Steinway & Sons. Located in downtown Troy, New York, not many are aware of it—but The Troy Savings Bank Music Hall is among the greatest piano concert halls in the world.

The 1,253-seat Troy Savings Bank Music Hall is also a registered National Historic Landmark. It is the second-oldest concert hall in the United States, one of the last remaining of the august 19th Century concert halls, and the roster of celebrated pianists who’ve performed there is truly impressive.


http://www.garritan.com/steinway_files/images/Troy6.jpg


George B. Post, a well known New York architect, reportedly designed the Troy Savings Bank Music Hall based upon its grand European counterparts of the day. World-renowned for its acoustical excellence, particularly for piano performances, sound propagates throughout this space with a luster and clarity that has captivated both audiences and virtuoso musicians for over 130 years.

There are various theories as to why the Troy Music Hall, considered by many experts to have the finest acoustics in America, has such richness, depth, detail and perfection. Research papers about the acoustics of this hall, published in the Journal for the Acoustical Society of America, suggest a number of factors.

First, the hall’s overall dimensions and proportions: the ratio of its length (106 feet) to its narrow width (69 feet) and unusually high ceiling (61 feet) are ideal. The rectangular “shoebox” design reflects the sound in a way that imparts fullness. Its depth seems to be the perfect proportion to ensure proper reverberation time (the time between the listener hearing the direct sound and the echoed reflections of it).

The stage, with a curved perimeter of 70 feet and depth of 20 feet, is just the right size and shape in relation to the hall. The acoustically “hard” back walls behind the stage, assisted by the curved eves over the stage, direct sound back towards the audience with efficiency, accuracy, and definition.

The entire structure of the Troy Savings Bank Music Hall, including the floor, is made of wood. This allows the hall to resonate freely, especially at lower frequencies, which adds to the richness and depth of the sound. Acoustician Christopher Jaffe once told the music critic Harold Schonberg that the hall can “vibrate like the belly of a violin”.

Also contributing to the sound are the radiating dispersal patterns created by the opulent architectural ornamentation intrinsic to the period decor. These irregular surfaces serve to “scatter” the sound, resulting in greater smoothness and uniformity of distribution.

Architecturally, the Troy Savings Bank Music Hall is a masterpiece, as well. Its distinguished somber exterior, shaded in canopied street-level windows, conceals unexpected extravagance. Multistory stained-glass windows bestow their radiant glow in the halls and lobby. Ornate iron staircases lead to upper and lower boxes and the balcony; and Parquet and Dress Circle seats are reached by a unique central stairway. Throughout, George B. Post’s French Renaissance- style ornamentation creates an atmosphere of luxuriant splendor, with much of the original frescoing still evident; and above, a massive chandelier graces the hall’s towering heights. Completed for $435,000, a considerable sum in those times, the workmanship and detail are magnificent—and all of these splendid adornments contribute to the auditorium’s superb sonic signature.

Indeed, the acoustics of Troy Savings Bank Music Hall are so extraordinary that one of the world’s foremost classical music record labels, Dorian Records, recorded more than a hundred compact disks in this hall. Dorian, one of the most highly regarded labels amongst audiophiles, also based their record company in Troy, New York, in order to take advantage of the Troy Music Hall’s unparalleled sound qualities.

Troy Savings Bank Music Hall historian Rutherford Hayner once wrote, “The building of [this] great Music Hall, one of the really important structures of its kind in America … gave to the community a sort of rallying point musically. Certain it is that no city of equal size in the country has enjoyed so much of the world’s best music and musicians.”

Historically, the Troy Savings Bank Music Hall has hosted most of the world’s finest pianists, a great many of them Steinway artists. The premier musicians of the day made it a point to perform at the renowned hall, and it remains today among the most highly preferred venues of serious artists.

To name just a few of the acclaimed pianists who have appeared at the Music Hall—all playing Steinway pianos—we might include: Sergei Rachmaninoff, Vladimir Horowitz, Ignacy Jan Paderewski, Artur Rubenstein, Myra Hess, Jose Iturbi, Harold Bauer, Josef Lhévinne, Andre Watts, Dave Brubeck, Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock—and the list goes on. It is no surprise that Steinway & Sons selected the Troy Music Hall as the venue for the Garritan Authorized Steinway Virtual Concert Grand Piano.


http://www.garritan.com/steinway_files/images/Troy3.jpg

Journeyman
04-06-2008, 01:38 PM
Thank you Gary. So would you agree with the statement that your Steinway was not developed exclusively with classical music in mind?

Garritan
04-06-2008, 01:46 PM
Thank you Gary. So would you agree with the statement that your Steinway was not developed exclusively with classical music in mind?Not exclusively. Our goal was to faithfully capture the sound of a Steinway Model D piano. Although the Model D is a "concert grand piano" and is the instrument of choice among many classical pianists, that does not exclude other genres. Dave Brubeck, Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock and many pop artists also play on a Steinway Concert Grand.

Gary Garritan

Journeyman
04-07-2008, 11:13 AM
Ummm.....Try decaf.

JohnGrant
04-07-2008, 11:48 AM
I'm curious to hear your thoughts on Falcone (Falcon) pianos. Back during the very brief time I had to study with John Adams, he was having Hallelujah Junction performed on a pair of pianos and mentioned that there were not many of them in the country and how much I enjoyed them. Now I could have sworn he said "Falcon" but he might have said Falcone. What I do know is that I really enjoyed the way they sounded and have been surprised I haven't heard more people mention them since.

So, any chance you've heard them and could help fill in this gap in my memory? :)

Gosh.... I've never heard of the company!! I should have said, above, that I've also heard/played some fabulous grands that weren't Steinways, for example, a Heintzman grand in the old CBC Radio Studio in Toronto, as well as another Heintzman grand privately owned, both of which sounded exquisite. Just luck of the draw.... some individual pianos can sound just fantastic, but top-notch tuning and regulating sure goes along way too!!! An increasingly lost art.

JG

Per Lichtman
04-07-2008, 05:18 PM
Gosh.... I've never heard of the company!! I should have said, above, that I've also heard/played some fabulous grands that weren't Steinways, for example, a Heintzman grand in the old CBC Radio Studio in Toronto, as well as another Heintzman grand privately owned, both of which sounded exquisite. Just luck of the draw.... some individual pianos can sound just fantastic, but top-notch tuning and regulating sure goes along way too!!! An increasingly lost art.

JG

Yeah, I think that's part of the reason why two people I know (one a teacher and one a colleague) were so excited about going to the Steinway factory to pick out their piano. Quality control or not: it helps to be able to think of them as individual instruments.

Cyntia
04-08-2008, 12:34 PM
Hi there!
I am a classical pianist and am really excited about the official Steinway piano. I grew up with a Steinway baby grand. Now I just have a Clavinova, but I have started using my computer for music.
Is this the first time a Steinway piano has been sampled? Will this software work inside of Logic on my Mac? Thanks... Cynti

Garritan
04-08-2008, 12:46 PM
Hi there!
I am a classical pianist and am really excited about the official Steinway piano. I grew up with a Steinway baby grand. Now I just have a Clavinova, but I have started using my computer for music.
Is this the first time a Steinway piano has been sampled? Will this software work inside of Logic on my Mac? Thanks... CyntiHi Cynti,

Welcome to the forum.

This is not the first time a Steinway piano has been sampled, but the first and only time Steinway & Sons became involved in the process of producing its Authorized Virtual Piano. Steinway had evaluated most of the sampled pianos, but felt none represented the characteristic Steinway sound. So Steinway undertook with us the development of a virtual piano that Steinway felt was worthy of its sound and name.

Yes, this software will work as an Audio Units plug-in with Logic.

My best,

Gary Garritan

runamuck
04-08-2008, 07:13 PM
Well, I've heard enough of the demos now to decide I want to get this library. The, 'under the lid' samples seem they may be exactly what I've been hoping for for years.

In the demos, the samples sound like a real, nicely recorded Steinway. I hope I'm not disappointed.

Jim McCarthy

Cyntia
04-08-2008, 07:50 PM
Thanks for taking the time to respond Mr. Garritan!

I am impressed by your demos and was recommended to buy Ivory, but I find that software somewhat artificial sounding... Cynti

scope4live
04-09-2008, 02:52 PM
Sold.

The sound is impressive, if the performance features are as good as the sound I will have a new Piano.

It won't replace my jammin' Upright, but I grow weary of work arounds when performing tunes where a sostenuto and una corde are needed.

Sure, I can record w/o these features, but I make a bulk of my income by playing live. This would be a treat to finally emulate a real piano for once instead of comprimising for a lack of features.


Great Job Mr. G. )(~

Metuschelach
04-16-2008, 07:03 PM
Hello,
for example at 0:12 (left Channel), 0:25 (left Channel) are noises sounding like somebody hits something in the hall. Or is that the pedal? Is it possible to switch these noises off? If that is the pedal why can I hear sometimes even right and then left again.

Regards,
Metuschelach

Haydn
04-16-2008, 08:38 PM
I'm sure the sounds your hearing are mechanical noises. You can control the amount of mechanical noise or shut it off.

Jim

ADNova
04-24-2008, 03:41 PM
This is a very interesting thread...lot of heavyweights here,.. I want to comment, I know its not mentioned intentionally, but u cannot group the tones, as classical 1 group, and rock, pop, jazz as 1 group...mabey rock and pop as a group..but IMO would say that jazz is in a league comparable to classical as far as an artist wanting certain things out of a piano...expecting certain things and for sure, in the studio, a Stnway recorded for jazz would be recorded entirely different than for a rock/pop situation...or a classical situation for that matter. I have been looking forward to hearing this sample set, but would like to try it...thats where it would make as big of a difference as the samples themselves...how playable is it...responsive...how does it sit in a mix, and how does it feel when I touch the keys...can I feel the wood? I would think that if Garritan and Stnway were going to go thru with this endeavor, they would also take in consideration the fact that much of the market doesnt just play classical,
so Im sure they would make the samples as customizable as possible given the players they would hope to attract.

And Im sure Steinway is just as proud having Herbie, Chick and a multitude of other jazz pianists using their product as they would be of a famous classical pianist.

On another post..A close friend of mine did the Stnway go to the factory to pick out your new piano thing, what an experience..and what a piano...there may be other brands out there, and many of them really good, but for me, theres really only one. I do look forward to trying this new sample set.

A.

bigears
05-12-2008, 05:46 AM
Hello, I have posted an example of the Garritan Steinway in a jazz trio setting in the Sample Libraries Discussion section. I think it may help members to hear the Under Lid perspective being used in a jazz chart. I have a long way to go with my rendering skills but I think the piano sounds great here. John (bigears)