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View Full Version : How to map Foot Controller = Expression on a KX88



Studio V
01-08-2007, 10:15 AM
Hi,

Just got the STRAD V2 to go with my GPO and JABB libraries. Have used electronic keyboards successfully for years with just the sustain and soft pedals. I went out and bought an 'expression pedal' (EX-P) to use specifically with the STRAD. But when I hooked it up to my main controller an old tried and true Yamaha XP88 I see that it defaults to controlling volume. Obviously, not what I had in mind.

I've searched the KX88 manual and think I understand how to change what each switch/controller controls, but the problem is that it doesn't list anything like 'expression' as a possibility in its listings of controller codes to set. To further complicate matters, its numbers don't coincide with what I've seen discussed here. For example, CC07 should normally be the code for volume, right? Well, the KX88 manual lists '17' for volume! Another: CC11 is what I see all of you talking about when you talk of expression; while in the KX88 manual, '11' is mapped to 'mod wheel', and there is no 'expression' possibility listed! It's confusing as all get out.

Can anybody here clue me in on how I would get the Foot Controller I purchased to control 'expression' on the KX88? I surely would appreciate it.

Many thanks.

Studio V

(If necessary, I'll be glad to copy the KX88 list of 'controller codes' and post it if it would help.)

vic_france
01-08-2007, 10:48 AM
I only vaguely remember the KX88, but judging from what you write about the documentation, there is some wrong info there!
"Expression" is indeed CC#11, and "Modulation" is CC#01.
If it says that "Volume" is CC#17", then it seems to be adding 10 to everything! (because of course "Volume" is indeed CC#07).

Have you actually tried setting the pedal to CC#11?

(Yes, please post the codes.. it would be interesting to see!)

Studio V
01-08-2007, 12:22 PM
I only vaguely remember the KX88, but judging from what you write about the documentation, there is some wrong info there! "Expression" is indeed CC#11, and "Modulation" is CC#01. If it says that "Volume" is CC#17", then it seems to be adding 10 to everything! (because of course "Volume" is indeed CC#07). Have you actually tried setting the pedal to CC#11? (Yes, please post the codes.. it would be interesting to see!)

Thanks for your quick response. Yes, the pedal is set to 11, but as I said it's controlling Mod Wheel. FWIW, the +10 thought occurred to me as well, but it doesn't seem to hold true because I now see their code numbers apparently are in hex notation.

Anyway, after I scanned the KX88 controller code table in to a .jpg file (from their manual), I see now that I am prevented from posting any attachments here. So I'll just type it out: (As you can see, no mention of 'expression' at all. Hope it can be done somehow.)

No Function
00 Single
01 Dual
02 Split/S. Point
03 Swap Channel
04 Midi Ch
05 Transpose
06 ---
07 Load
08 A Oct Up
09 B Oct Up
0A A Oct Dwn
0B B Oct Dwn
0C Ch Inc 1
0D Ch Dec 1
0E Ch Inc 2
0F Ch Dec 2
10 Pitch Bend
11 Mod Wheel
12 Breath Ctrl
13 After Touch
14 Foot Ctrl
15 Porta Time
16 Data Entry
17 Volume
18 Sustain on/off
19 Sustain on
1A Sustain off
1B Porta on/off
1C Porta on
1D Porta off
1E ---
1F ---
20 Sosten on/off
21 Sosten on
22 Sosten off
23 Soft on/off
24 Soft on
25 Soft off
26 Increment
27 Decrement
28 Local on
29 Local off
2A Omni on
2B Omni off
2C Mono 1
2D Mono 2
2E Poly
2F ---
30 Song Select
31 Midi Clock
32 Start
33 Continue
34 Stop
35 ---
36 Tune Request
37 System Reset
38 Master Tune
39 Duall Mode Detune
3A LFO Speed
3B LFO Delay Time
3C Pitch Mod Depth
3D Amp Mod Depth
3E Universal 1
3F Universal 2
--- (end of KX88 table)

Bob
Studio V

vic_france
01-08-2007, 01:10 PM
Ah, O.K. they were not referring to controller numbers, but to their own arbitrary list!
So, as you said, Expression is not part of that list, so you'll have to take one of the existing controllers ("Volume" is a good candidate in this case) and convert it into CC#11 via the computer..
Are you using the Strad as Standalone or as a plugin in your Host (if so, which host?)
If you are using Standalone, on PC you can convert this with MIDIOX, or if on Mac, there is MIDIPipe.
You can use those also if you are using the Strad as a virtual instrument in a host sequencer, although the host may well also provide its own controller converter. Post back if you need more info :)

dhurst
01-09-2007, 11:01 PM
Going around the block with this myself. Using KX88 and the Kontakt standalone player and midipipe. I've yet to come across "expression."
I have two foot controllers ("expression pedals"). I can assign volume, modulation, portamento, etc., but no "expression".

CC11 is so far a myth.

vic_france
01-10-2007, 08:18 AM
Hello dhurst,
Set one of the pedals of your KX88 to "Volume".. it will send out CC#7.
In MIDIPipe, convert CC#7 to CC#11.

Studio V
01-10-2007, 11:48 AM
Vic,
Just to let you know: I finally decided to use my Kurzweil PC88 keyboard as controller, especially for the Strad. Heretofore, the KX88 has served me exceptionally well in my studio. (Never had any reason to output 'expression,' lo, these many years.) I've had the luxury of keeping the Kurzweil packed in its case for use on gigs only. But rather than mess around with MidiOx or MapleMidi to alter the output from the KX88 (not really having had any experience with either of those applications), I figure it's a lot easier in the long run to just physically unpack the PC88, set it up for studio use with the Strad when I need it, and then repack it for gigs. By the way, the expression pedal works great now that it's outputting the correct CC11 info stream.
Thanks for your interest and trying to help.
Bob
Studio V

vic_france
01-10-2007, 12:28 PM
.. I figure it's a lot easier in the long run to just physically unpack the PC88, set it up for studio use with the Strad when I need it, and then repack it for gigs.
You make me realize I must be a lot older than you! (how much does the PC88 weigh?) :D
Glad you found a solution anyways :)

dhurst
01-10-2007, 07:31 PM
Set one of the pedals of your KX88 to "Volume".. it will send out CC#7.
In MIDIPipe, convert CC#7 to CC#11.

Thanks for your comment Vic_france. I've tried remapping various CC#'s to CC#11 (using MidiPipe). No dice.

I see StudioZ's is using a Kurzweil PC88 and that's doing the trick. I have a Kurzweil SP88. Perhaps it will work?

Why is this CC#11 business such a bugger for so many folks?

vic_france
01-10-2007, 08:24 PM
dhurst,
How are you routing everything?
First launch MIDIPipe, and set it up as follows...
MIDI In (the MIDI Input that is receiving your KX88)
Message Converter (Control Change 007>Control Change 011)
MIDI Out (MIDIPipe Output 1)

Launch Kontakt Player 2.
Goto the Setup Menu>"Audio / MIDi Setup" at the top of the screen. Click the MIDI widget, and scroll down to the bottom of "Input Interface", where you should now see "MIDIPipe Output 1" available. Switch it on. It will now be available as a MIDI Input to the Kontakt Player (probably as Port D)
(I've just tried this myself, so I know it works ;) )

Studio V
01-11-2007, 04:27 PM
Thanks for your comment Vic_france. I've tried remapping various CC#'s to CC#11 (using MidiPipe). No dice.

I see StudioZ's is using a Kurzweil PC88 and that's doing the trick. I have a Kurzweil SP88. Perhaps it will work?

Why is this CC#11 business such a bugger for so many folks?

Hi,

Just jumping in here again ...

FWIW, I looked at the SP88 manual online, and it sure should work. Just plug your expression pedal/controller in to the Foot Control Pedal slot, then assign the control pedal to expression (11) -- their default is for Foot Controller (4), which is why you have to change it -- and once that's done you're set.

I'm sure the method Vic has recommended will work fine for you as well. At least you know you do have a choice.

Good luck.

Bob
Studio V

dhurst
01-14-2007, 05:10 PM
dbudde, your tip did the trick:

track1 in - keyboard
track1 out - IAC1
track2 in - IAC1
track2 out - Kontakt.

(Using DP) I DID get a little hung up reassaigning continuous data from with the tracks window, which doesn't work. Once I reassigned it from within the mixing board as an insert it worked like a charm. Duh!

However, try as I might to use "Foot Controller 2" (CC#14 [?] on the KX88) it's a no go. I have to use "Foot Controller 1" which is volume (and it's CC#17 according to Yamaha's weird system). In reassign contiuous data I'm converting CC#7 to CC#11. A mess but it works.

Before finally getting it together with the KX88 I thought of using the Kurzweil SP88 as contoller only to discover that Yamaha (and Korg) expression pedals won't work with Kurzwiel equipment, so I was looking at purchasing another freakin' pedal. Then I was about to give it a go using the Hammond XB-2 as master keyboard.

Sheesh! It's been a long haul. First order of business after receiving the Strad was upgrading my OS from Panther to Tiger. Documentation states the software will run on Mac 10.2.8. Not true! The Native Instruments crew informed me otherwise. I've reminded Gary to change this next time he "goes to press."

Thanks to everyone contributing to the forum. Much appreciated!
. . . and Vic_france, I'll explore the MidiPipe setup for the standalone approach. You are right that I need to check all of my midi and audio routing to get that off the ground.

thanks again

betthefarm
06-26-2011, 06:39 AM
Cross post from Gearslutz:

I just figured this out. You have to use their arcane hex system to do it.

Hit MODE once to get into CA mode. You should see a blinking CA.

Then hold MODE to get to PA Mode. You should now see a blinking PA.

Next, there are two rows/banks of buttons, one is marked A, the other B. Along the A row, push the button marked 11, it should say "Control Change" underneath it.

Once you hit this the top displays CC on the top and the bottom two dashes are blinking. Think of this step as creating a preset, but first you must select the preset you wish to program.

Presets 40 and up are USER Custom, so just program preset 40. Under the B row of numbers, type in 51, this will actually input the numbers 40. There are secondary numbers in grey above the numbered buttons, those are the actual values. ie 1 has a small grey 0 above. Don't even ****ing ask why. Once you do this you will see two values flashing on the top display.

Next is where you actually assign MIDI CC, and for whatever the **** reason, to get CC11 you need to type 1 and then 12. It should display 0b. I know. WTF. If you're reading the small grey numbers type in 0 followed by B. The bottom display will show a blinking 0. Just hit 1(grey 0), and Mode one more time to exit out.

Next all you need to do is program Preset 40 to a slider, footswitch whatever. To do that, hit the MODE button followed by wheel 1-Fc2 depending on what you want to program, and then punch in 40.

What a bullshit way to program something. I need a drink.