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matt9b
05-08-2006, 10:04 AM
Does anyone know some good piano samples for pop? I'm talking Lucie Silvas - pop. www.luciesilvas.com (http://www.luciesilvas.com) - listen to the piano in her tracks. Grand pianos good for this sort of pop tend to be quite light, dry, with not too much mud whilst not sounding at all like midi. Any ideas? You can hear that the malmsjo is too dark/reverby and would not sit in a lucie silvas mix. Bosendorfer 290 tone isn't right for a pop mix like this. Old Lady is good within the mix, but on its own doesn't have enough sustain to sound good.

I would prefer not to alter tone to that sort of degree using eq, it always ends in not sounding right.. this is down to the piano samples themselves.
If anyone can recommend something they know to sound like the piano on the luciesilvas site that would be great. Or deltagoodrem.com, or check out the tones of any other mainstream piano based acoustic pop artist.

Thanks

Laurent
05-08-2006, 10:57 AM
Hi,

Those pianos sound somehow Equed to fit in mixes.

Why not trying a C7 ?

TBO or Vintaudio C7 might sound right.

I have made some female vocalist recordings (more Jazzy than Pop) with the Vintaudio C7. The piano is bright but without many high harmonics, it doesn't fight with female voice. With a reduced stereo spread, it fits quite well.

TBO is warmer and thiker, and more expressive (even if the extented ppp / fff range has little interrest for this kind of music, mostly played in the mf range)

White Grand malmsjo is also renowned for pop/rock. (this one is the opposite of dark and reverby). Maybe a bit to much "bite" for this light pop.

Alan Russell
05-08-2006, 11:11 AM
Kip,

I always use the Bardstownaudio Borsendorfer Imperial Grand Piano for all of my Pop and Jazz performances. Have you listened to the demos here?

http://bardstownaudio.com/frames/mp3.html

Alan Russell



Does anyone know some good piano samples for pop? I'm talking Lucie Silvas - pop. www.luciesilvas.com (http://www.luciesilvas.com) - listen to the piano in her tracks. Grand pianos good for this sort of pop tend to be quite light, dry, with not too much mud whilst not sounding at all like midi. Any ideas? You can hear that the malmsjo is too dark/reverby and would not sit in a lucie silvas mix. Bosendorfer 290 tone isn't right for a pop mix like this. Old Lady is good within the mix, but on its own doesn't have enough sustain to sound good.

I would prefer not to alter tone to that sort of degree using eq, it always ends in not sounding right.. this is down to the piano samples themselves.
If anyone can recommend something they know to sound like the piano on the luciesilvas site that would be great. Or deltagoodrem.com, or check out the tones of any other mainstream piano based acoustic pop artist.

Thanks

Journeyman
05-08-2006, 12:10 PM
If your computer is powerful enough, these pianos sound just like the pianos in Synthogy's Ivory.

jloeb
05-08-2006, 12:13 PM
The White Grand by SampleTekk is outstanding for pop applications (and then some), the 24 bit version is available by download (if you've got broadband) and Worra is great to deal with.

matt9b
05-08-2006, 02:38 PM
cool, thanks for all the replies.. I have been listening tothe pianos you've all mentioned- good selection you've all chosen there I think! So far my favourite for this pop application is the tone of the White Grand. It has a less initial nasal initial hit tone. I won't be able to tell for sure without getting them all!

Does anyone know any mainstream acoustic piano-based pop artists who's tracks contain sampled piano?

Michiel Post
05-09-2006, 02:43 AM
Does anyone know any mainstream acoustic piano-based pop artists who's tracks contain sampled piano?
?

Vanessa Carlton uses PMI Bosendorfer290 and Old Lady on her latest album. Peter Gabriel uses PMI Bosendorfer and recently added EMPEROR and OLD LADY on Receptor for touring. U2 has Old Lady, EMPEROR and PMI Bosendorfer290 (also on Muse Recpetors).

For more sustain I would recommend the new HYBRID pianos from PMI. Piano #2 is very suited for this kind of pop sound.

The Old Lady can also be altered to have more sustain. The easiest way to do this is on Kontakt 2 where you can insert a compressor as group insert. This way all indidual samples get a "sustain boost". Using a compressor on the overall signal only works on louder parts, not on the individual notes.
The hard way (if you have Giga or other samplers) is to export the wavepool to a new folder and apply a batch compressor processor on all samples. Re-link to the new wavepool (replace wavepool in Giga or simply swap the folders in EXS and Halion).

alanb
05-09-2006, 03:28 AM
For more sustain I would recommend the new HYBRID pianos from PMI. Piano #2 is very suited for this kind of pop sound.
I'm still confused from an earlier discussion regarding the use of piano sample libraries with music involving lots of sustain pedal, and issues related to polyphony, velocity layers, etc. (this was in an earlier thread http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44261 (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44261) where I was looking for the best library to create sustained-arpeggiated La Monte Young/Terry Riley/Lubomyr Melnyk-style music on the one hand, and heavy, percussive, McCoy Tyner-like jazz playing on the other).

There were some intriguing posts in the earlier thread, but I still don't quite understand whether I should select a piano library based solely upon the number of velocity layers, or whether I have to worry about other things in termns of my ability to judiciously apply sustain without overloading the CPU/hard drives/etc.

Any thoughts/comments would be welcomed!!

matt9b
05-09-2006, 12:39 PM
There were some intriguing posts in the earlier thread, but I still don't quite understand whether I should select a piano library based solely upon the number of velocity layers, or whether I have to worry about other things in termns of my ability to judiciously apply sustain without overloading the CPU/hard drives/etc.

Any thoughts/comments would be welcomed!!

It's a common misconception that the number of velocity layers, or size (in GB) determine the quality of a piano sample library.

People are always using words like.. "great" to describe sample libraries, which really makes no sense because there are many great sample libraries available today, which would not sound great for all projects. The question should be does it have the RIGHT sound for the purpose of your project!

alanb
05-09-2006, 01:08 PM
It's a common misconception that the number of velocity layers, or size (in GB) determine the quality of a piano sample library.

People are always using words like.. "great" to describe sample libraries, which really makes no sense because there are many great sample libraries available today, which would not sound great for all projects. The question should be does it have the RIGHT sound for the purpose of your project!
You're generally quite right, but my "velocity layers" issue stems from the previously-referenced discussion, in which it was suggested (for reasons I'm still trying to understand here) that more velocity layers will allow for greater polyphony, which in turn will allow for more "sustained sustain," which is something that I haven't been able to achieve using Giga3Orch and the "GigaPiano II" that came bundled with it.

For certain kinds of music that I wish to make, my primary objective is to find a sample set that will allow me to play the way that I need to play... lots of heavily-sustained arpeggiations .

Others here have suggested that adding velocity layers will make this (more) possible. I'm just trying to understand the science behind the art, here, so that I can figure out which sample set will work the best (maybe not even [I]sound the best, but work the best) for this particular style.

No matter how perfect a particular set's "sound" is, it's useless for this project if I'm continually overloading my CPU/hard drives trying to play it. Plenty of wonderful musicians make extraordinary music regardless of which instrument they happen to be playing. That's what I'm shooting for... ;)

football
05-09-2006, 01:20 PM
If it is specifically for Pop then Ivory's Yamaha is killing.

Laurent
05-09-2006, 01:24 PM
It's a common misconception that the number of velocity layers, or size (in GB) determine the quality of a piano sample library.

People are always using words like.. "great" to describe sample libraries, which really makes no sense because there are many great sample libraries available today, which would not sound great for all projects. The question should be does it have the RIGHT sound for the purpose of your project!
This is so true.
For me, number of velocity layers is a big driver when "quality" stands for live solo pleasure / expressivity.
But when I choose a piano sound for a mix, I can put a "great" 4 layers piano if it sounds right there...

matt9b
05-09-2006, 02:46 PM
For certain kinds of music that I wish to make, my primary objective is to find a sample set that will allow me to play the way that I need to play... lots of heavily-sustained arpeggiations .

Others here have suggested that adding velocity layers will make this (more) possible. I'm just trying to understand the science behind the art, here, so that I can figure out which sample set will work the best (maybe not even [I]sound the best, but work the best) for this particular style.

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound condecending in my last post :)

With more velocity layers, if you're playing at slightly different velocities with a lot of repetition (eg for fast arpeggios), so different samples will be triggered each time you press the same note. This results in less machine-gun affect which is associated with samples. Having said this, you rarely hear the machine gun affect in piano samples anyway, regardless of there being few layers.

However, it is interesting thing you bring up - It might be interesting to make a new piano sample library and trigger each note to play a different sample, almost like the vsl repetition tool. I dont know if this has been made yet!

matt9b
05-09-2006, 02:48 PM
If it is specifically for Pop then Ivory's Yamaha is killing.
Hi, that is my 2nd choice at the moment. White grand being the first. I'm just going by the tone of the demos so far.

Do you have any pop tracks you made with it..

sporter
05-09-2006, 06:11 PM
The string attack is very important in that type of sound. The Bardstown Bose does the best job with that than anything I've heard, plus it's just an all around beautiful sample. It is very versatile, and works great in pop.

synthnut
05-10-2006, 12:56 PM
White Grand , Vintaudio C7, and Ivory .....Not nessesarily in that order ...Any of them sound GREAT for Pop work ....Good Luck ....Jim