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View Full Version : SIPS and GPO...i'd wish non vibrato strings!



bosone
05-02-2006, 03:24 AM
hi!
i recently used Big Bob's "solo instruments performance suite" (SIPS)
http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44408
in a piece of mine, with cello.

SIPS legato is wonderful, and there is also a script for achieving a convinging vibrato.
i tried it on the NV GPO Flute, and it seems very convincing...
now, with the releasing and the future improvements of these scripts, i wish that GPO had more non-vibrato instruments, expecially among strings sections and solo strings... ;-)

Hannes_F
05-02-2006, 03:51 AM
Hi,

could you please provide an audible sample of what you mean?

Hannes

bosone
05-02-2006, 04:39 AM
You can listen to well done demos here
http://www.theokrueger.com/Sips.htm

basically, it a way of achieving legato and vibrato by means of kontakt 2 scripting

Jerry W.
05-02-2006, 11:54 AM
You can listen to well done demos here
http://www.theokrueger.com/Sips.htm

basically, it a way of achieving legato and vibrato by means of kontakt 2 scripting


I tried SIPS - AND LOVED IT! but I think that loading GPO samples in K2 can yield mixed results. The strings, esp, seem to have instances of sustained notes sticking. I may be doing something wrong, (usually the case). But in the case of non vibrato solo instruments, like flute, piccolo, trumpet, etc, the vibrato script is just to die for!! It sound so realistic. And I love that it can be triggered by ANY CC you assign. The legato script is just as awesome, given the right patch. As I say - I have had mixed results using SIPS with GPO. It seems to work really well with the velocity based libraries.

:)
Jerry

joaz
05-02-2006, 12:47 PM
I am a fan of the new SIPS script. I recently rendered my Brass Quintet using it.
I did encounter some problems, but found a few workarounds.
GPO instruments in K2 seem a bit hit and miss at the moment, but I imagine GPOA will be built on the K2 engine, and hope that some of these problems(stuck notes etc,) will disappear.

regards Joe

cptexas
05-03-2006, 05:56 AM
Wow!
Those are some impressive demos!!
The more I hear the results of these scripts the more curious I am as to how they work.

-Chris

Jerry W.
05-03-2006, 06:43 AM
I am a fan of the new SIPS script. I recently rendered my Brass Quintet using it.
I did encounter some problems, but found a few workarounds.


Joaz,

What workarounds did you find?

:)

Jerry

Hannes_F
05-03-2006, 07:59 AM
You can listen to well done demos here
http://www.theokrueger.com/Sips.htm

basically, it a way of achieving legato and vibrato by means of kontakt 2 scripting

Thank you. I listened carefully to it. The idea of sculpting the transition between notes is excellent since the magic is often "between" the notes. This is definetely the way to go.

However these effects should be used sparingly. Especially the pitch bending between notes with strings. To my ears it seems as if among sample users there might be a tendency to overuse it, since they think that "it sounds so realistic".

String players will often try to avoid pitch bending transitions by all means while playing legato. If it is unavoidable to the left hand then they will mask it by releasing the pressure of the bow for the fraction of a second, so not letting it sound. If the portamento is hearable nontheless it will be regarded as bad technique - unless it is played with musical purpose. Portamenti that are induced by the musical line are fine. A good rule for every instrumentalist is to make a portamento when a singer would make one.

Stylistically also there is a difference beween upwards and downwards portamento. Downwards portamento were very popular in interpretations of the early 20th century and sound really outfashioned now if overused.

So a portamento can be real magic, but only if is an exception. The amount of portamento will differ regarding the style - very sparing in classical music, more of it in works of the romantic era, much more in Jazz. How then a portamento is done - when it is done - is one key to top notch style and can make listeners cry literally.

While we are at it something also can be said about vibrato. Many sample musicians (especially if they do film music) seem to think that string players per se develop their vibrato after the start of the note ... making a "vibrato hill" or "swell". While this is often true in certain situations this notorious swell may be a bad habit in others. It can give the impression of "shoving" or "pressing" the tone after it has started and therefore destroy a legato line. The fact that this can be observed even in professional orchestras does not mean that it is musical. A good strings legato needs a seamless vibrato that links from one tone to the other. It may become bigger and smaller, but the curve should follow the phrasing line. This may be more unconveniant anatomically than the "shoving after" method but it is much more musical.

My 2 c ...


Hannes

EDIT: Note that this is a general rant and Bob's script seems to fix at least something of it - if used with sense. So ... excellent!!!

joaz
05-03-2006, 12:38 PM
Joaz,

What workarounds did you find?

:)

Jerry
I was initially plagued by stuck notes, but my workaround was to assign a controller to the Legato on/off button.(The on when lit button).
I could never use it for the last note of a phrase, but if I had an 8 note run, I could use it on 7 of them.
I copied the sustain pedal information to CC28( the normal GPO method of legato), then deleted the sustain data.
I then had to trim the CC28 data, to make sure it didnt overlap the last note of a legato phrase.

I have used fairly conservative settings, because there is a temptation to have an excess of portamento. Nice for Strings, but not as appropriate for Brass.

Hope that helps

regards Joe

Jerry W.
05-04-2006, 10:28 AM
I was initially plagued by stuck notes, but my workaround was to assign a controller to the Legato on/off button.(The on when lit button).
I could never use it for the last note of a phrase, but if I had an 8 note run, I could use it on 7 of them.
I copied the sustain pedal information to CC28( the normal GPO method of legato), then deleted the sustain data.
I then had to trim the CC28 data, to make sure it didnt overlap the last note of a legato phrase.

I have used fairly conservative settings, because there is a temptation to have an excess of portamento. Nice for Strings, but not as appropriate for Brass.

Hope that helps

regards Joe

Joe - that was VERY helpful. I love that you can assign the legato or vibrato to a CC.

So what process did you use? First in notation? then exported it as a MIDI file into your DAW? or did you record these live? And then do editing afterwards? You mentioned you "copied the sustain info", which infers you had a standard GPO version first?

Sorry - and I am sure I will figure it out on my own projects, but your process would be enlightening.

Thanks for your time


Jerry

joaz
05-04-2006, 04:42 PM
Joe - that was VERY helpful. I love that you can assign the legato or vibrato to a CC.

So what process did you use? First in notation? then exported it as a MIDI file into your DAW? or did you record these live? And then do editing afterwards? You mentioned you "copied the sustain info", which infers you had a standard GPO version first?

Sorry - and I am sure I will figure it out on my own projects, but your process would be enlightening.

Thanks for your time


Jerry

Jerry
It was a 3 movt work.

1st movt started in Sibelius.
2nd and 3rd in Cubase.

Ist movt.....export midi file. Then tweak in Cubase.
2nd and 3rd........ write and tweak simultaneously......... then export midi file to Sibelius.

It was all done using standard GPO method of Legato. (Sustain pedal)
I then converted this sustain data to CC 28 (simply because CC28 is an unused controller in GPO)
Then in the sips script....( bottom right hand corner...legato on/off) you can assign a CC number to the on-when-lit button. You can scroll to get the Number or just type the number(eg 28) and hit enter.

As I said.. this is not perfect, I used a lot of Two 8th notes figures that I would have liked to be more legato, but I cant achieve this using the script without stuck notes.
But for more flowing legato lines, it worked just fine.
If you want to hear it in action......
http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?p=408952#post408952

Is this any clearer??

regards Joe

sylva
02-27-2010, 04:08 PM
Hello to those who venture into this thread after so many years. SIPS talks only about K2, 3 and 4. Nothing about whether it can be used with Kompakt Player. Can't it?

Thanks, S.

PS: I realize one could not modify or write scripts, one would need the full Kompakt.