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fred Holmes
01-30-2006, 09:30 AM
Further investigations into converting GPO gigs to Konakt
After what I thought were successful conversions (because of no error messages) by Kontakt 2.02 I discovered on playing the back that many were truncated(sounded cut off). [NOTE: there may be other issues but I'm limiting myself to these for now to avoid confusion]

I even resurrected my version of Gigastudio 2.5.3 to see how it handled the original GOS gig files as a reference

I got so confused with all the possible conversions I was trying
Kontakt 1.5.3 - Kontakt 2.02 - Chicken Systems "Translator" that I decided to take a much smaller sample of the possible instruments to concentrate on.

Right now I'm limiting myself to direct conversions by K2.02 and only the 1st violins short bows.

Here's what I found with the 1st Vlns Marcarto instrument

When imported by directly by k2.02 all sounds are truncated (cut off very quickly). In fact some of them I hear only a "click" without any musical note.

I discovered that going into the Modulation section of the instrument that the "Hold" and "Sustain" controls are set to zero (0). The envelope looks like an inverted "V",(Steep rise and immediate steep decent). If I increased either HOLD or SUSTAIN controlls enough I regained the full use of the samples.

Same with 1st vln Sautille mf
Same with 1st Vln Sul Tasto mf

Anyone else trying this ?
Same results?
Different results?

When I get time I'll try bulk conversions and Translator to see what happens

Fred

fred Holmes
01-30-2006, 02:25 PM
I've now obsessively gone through the \Garritan Orchestral Strings\1st Violins\1st Violins Short Bows as converted by Kontakt 2.02

To make a long story short: Any instrument which sounds truncated/cut-off can be corrected by increasing the Sustain control in the Modulation section of the K2 editor.

There are some files (marked with a ?) which sound fine even though the sustain (and Hold) controls are set to a minimum. Why-I don't know

I have no idea if any midi controls are converted correctly - TTTTRN (too tired to try right now!)

Fred

- = sound Truncated-sustain=infinity
+ = Sound OK-sustain=0.0db
? = Sounds OK-sustain=infinity

+ 1st Vln Grand Detache UpDn ALT 88.nki
+ 1st Vln Grand Detache UpDn ALT.nki
+ 1st Vln Grand Detache.nki
- 1st Vln Marc, Saut, SulT X-Fades by JB.nki
- 1st Vln Marcato UpDn ALT 88.nki
+ 1st Vln Marcato UpDn ALT VAR1 88.nki
+ 1st Vln Marcato UpDn ALT VAR1.nki
? 1st Vln Marcato UpDn ALT VAR2 88.nki
? 1st Vln Marcato UpDn ALT VAR2.nki
- 1st Vln Marcato UpDn ALT.nki
- 1st Vln Marcato.nki
- 1st Vln Sautille mf UpDn ALT 88.nki
+ 1st Vln Sautille mf UpDn ALT VAR1 88.nki
+ 1st Vln Sautille mf UpDn ALT VAR1.nki
? 1st Vln Sautille mf UpDn ALT VAR2 88.nki
? 1st Vln Sautille mf UpDn ALT VAR2.nki
- 1st Vln Sautille mf UpDn ALT.nki
+ 1st Vln Sautille mf UpDn ER VAR1.nki
?1st Vln Sautille mf UpDn ER VAR2.nki
- 1st Vln Sautille mf UpDn ER.nki
- 1st Vln Sautille mf.nki
- 1st Vln Sautille p UpDn ALT 88.nki
+ 1st Vln Sautille p UpDn ALT VAR1 88.nki
+ 1st Vln Sautille p UpDn ALT VAR1.nki
? 1st Vln Sautille p UpDn ALT VAR2 88.nki
? 1st Vln Sautille p UpDn ALT VAR2.nki
- 1st Vln Sautille p UpDn ALT.nki
+ 1st Vln Sautille p UpDn ER VAR1.nki
? 1st Vln Sautille p UpDn ER VAR2.nki
- 1st Vln Sautille p UpDn ER.nki
- 1st Vln Sautille p.nki
- 1st Vln Sul Tasto mf UpDn ALT 88.nki
+ 1st Vln Sul Tasto mf UpDn ALT VAR1 88.nki
+ 1st Vln Sul Tasto mf UpDn ALT VAR1.nki
? 1st Vln Sul Tasto mf UpDn ALT VAR2 88.nki
? 1st Vln Sul Tasto mf UpDn ALT VAR2.nki
- 1st Vln Sul Tasto mf UpDn ALT.nki
+ 1st Vln Sul Tasto mf UpDn ER VAR1.nki
? 1st Vln Sul Tasto mf UpDn ER VAR2.nki
- 1st Vln Sul Tasto mf UpDn ER.nki
- 1st Vln Sul Tasto mf.nki
- 1st Vln Sul Tasto mp UpDn ALT 88.nki
+ 1st Vln Sul Tasto mp UpDn ALT VAR1 88.nki
+ 1st Vln Sul Tasto mp UpDn ALT VAR1.nki
? 1st Vln Sul Tasto mp UpDn ALT VAR2 88.nki
? 1st Vln Sul Tasto mp UpDn ALT VAR2.nki
- 1st Vln Sul Tasto mp UpDn ALT.nki
+ 1st Vln Sul Tasto mp UpDn ER VAR1.nki
? 1st Vln Sul Tasto mp UpDn ER VAR2.nki
- 1st Vln Sul Tasto mp UpDn ER.nki
- 1st Vln Sul Tasto mp.nki
- 1st Vln Sul Tasto_Sautille X-Fade.nki
+ 1st Vln WARM Grand Detache UpDn ALT 88.nki
+ 1st Vln WARM Grand Detache UpDn ALT.nki
+ 1st Vln WARM Grand Detache.nki

danpowers
02-06-2006, 10:03 AM
Currently I'm working with the 1st violin marcato patches in K2, and I'm having similar problems.

I tried your suggestion of increasing the sustain, with mixed results. Some notes sound fine, others cut off abruptly.

I'm having better luck with just programming my own marcato instruments from scratch. That's all I need at the moment, so it isn't too big a job.

tcohen
02-06-2006, 02:28 PM
Fred,

Wow - lots of work you've done on this - and thanks for taking the bull by the horns. I KNOW this will work somehow - the product is just so good it needs to work!

I've tried this method and now I'm having all sorts of strange problems in addition to the old ones. Most notably, when I play on the keyboard midi, I only get some notes some of the time to work at all! It is random and absolutely maddening. I simply am dumbfounded.... Is anyone else having this issue using GOS with Kontakt 2? Just wondering because it seemed to work fine one day, the next it did not...
Tim

fred Holmes
02-06-2006, 05:18 PM
I've gone through the entire GOS - all instruments - and while I haven't been as thorough documenting it, I think, with very few exception, I have a working set of K2 samples.

The exception are all the Pizz samples in the Key Switched instruments (vln-cello-viola) where I get what would appear to be a transit spike when I don't let the sample play all the way through - that of course limits the playability drasticallly.
That same problem does not appear when using Gigasampler 1.5.4.

If you are increasing the sustain envelope, just make sure you are doing it for all the groups (group edit = all [Bright Red]).

There are many people with many serious problems in K2 (take a look at the NI-K2 forum) I have only had one issue with K2 so far and that appears to be changing the file names on save. It randomly adds a .(dot) or _(underscore) into the file name so I have to constantly look to make sure the filename is correct(ed). Don't know if you've had any of these other major issues with K2 which may be overlaying the translation issues

I also (with a small sample set) thought that kontakt 1.5.. seemed to do a more consistantly good transition (bulk mode) and used that during the latter parts of my conversion process.

I admit to being rater obsessive when confronted with this type of issue - which results at times of loosing my way in all the possibilities. But, my bottom line now is that I will use K2 for the vast majority of instruments-If the Maestro tools seem to be essential, I'll use gigasampler

I have not yet tried the Maestro Tool (although I did register to get the Serial #) There are so many useful user created scripts appearing in K2 that it may not be necessary. There's also the excellent MFX plugins at www.Tencrazy.com

What's the current instrument you're having difficulties with? I can see if I'm gaving similar issues and prehaps can help you get it working.

Fred

fred Holmes
02-07-2006, 06:46 PM
A few more finds - I've been working on the instruments in the 1st Vlns Additional Techniques 2.

I've discovered that many of the instruments have a Modulation setting as follows

In the "Modulation" section, click the "modulation" button and you may find there are two settings Decay and Release both set for cc 81. Try setting these either to
1. inactive (especially the release one)
or
2 change it from cc81 to velocity.

you may cure the "cut-off effect in that instrument.

fred

danpowers
02-14-2006, 10:32 AM
Something else: last night I tried to use the Viola SusV EXP program. It sounded all wrong, and I realized that K2 was using the "slide up" samples instead of the SusV samples.

I seem to remember that when I imported GOS into Kontakt 1 on my old computer, I didn't have these problems. I'm wondering if I should just copy all the GOS programs from my old computer into my new one.

fred Holmes
02-14-2006, 12:18 PM
Hi Dan,

YES use the nki's converted with Kontakt 1.xxx. While I haven't seen your particular issue, I found the K1.xxx conveersions more consistantly usable than those converted with Kontakt 2.02

Fred

danpowers
02-18-2006, 11:45 AM
It took a while, but I finally got all the old converted GOS files transferred to the new computer. Everything seems to be working fine now! :D

fred Holmes
02-18-2006, 03:40 PM
Hi Dan,
congrats-great news!

Could you do me a favor?
What version of Kontakt 1 do you have?
Did you have to do any AHDSR or modulation tweeking ?

I had no problems with any of the long bow instruments (all sections)
My major issues were with the KS and Lite and Additional Technique instruments a nd some of the Short bows.

Would you try something for me?
in 1st violins KS and Lite, either
1st Vlns Add Tech KS Comb 1 lite (c2-D#2) or
1st Vlns WARM Add Tech KS Comb 1 lite (c2-D#2)

If you use the C2 keyswitch and play very rapid notes (shorter than the natural sample length) do you get any clicking noise or other strange cut off effects as it transitions from one note to the next?

I had to do mulltiple tweaks on these to finally get them correct.

Thanks for the info

Fred

danpowers
02-18-2006, 05:52 PM
Fred, I tried what you asked and I didn't notice anything wrong happening.

The version of Kontakt I had on the old computer was 1.5.3.010. (On the new computer I only have Kontakt 2).

Andrew Aversa
12-14-2006, 10:59 PM
Sorry to bump a really old post, but Fred, do you think you could share your properly functioning NKIs? They should be pretty small, and it would be very helpful. I can host them myself for others, too.

fred Holmes
12-15-2006, 08:19 AM
Hi Andrew,

I'm in the midst of a project today, but I'll check this weekend - do you have an email address you want me to send them to?

Fred

Andrew Aversa
12-15-2006, 11:15 PM
Sure, try aaversa@gmail.com - again I'll be happy to post a link for everyone, and of course I would really appreciate it myself!!

Oliver Vessey
12-31-2006, 06:46 AM
Andrew / Fred
I would also appreciate getting hold of these NKIs if possible.
Can you PM me or post a link?
Many thanks
Oliver

fred Holmes
01-12-2007, 08:19 AM
Hi Stephan,

If you read through the first part of this thread you'll see that it is a K2.2 import WITH LOTSof tweaking.

If you send me a private mail I'll send you the .nki files and the directory file structure. You will still have to import the gig files into K2.2, save programs AND samples. (then try it out to see if they work correctly - you might be suprised) If not use my .nki's

I have no experience with "Extreme Sample Converter"

Fred

pcor
11-08-2007, 07:59 PM
Hi Stephan,

If you read through the first part of this thread you'll see that it is a K2.2 import WITH LOTSof tweaking.

If you send me a private mail I'll send you the .nki files and the directory file structure. You will still have to import the gig files into K2.2, save programs AND samples. (then try it out to see if they work correctly - you might be suprised) If not use my .nki's

I have no experience with "Extreme Sample Converter"

Fred

Hi Fred,

I'm an old GOS user, originally bought my first windows machine to run it. Now I am using GPO (and have Kontakt 2), but liked GOS better. I cannot get giga to run nicely with cubase on my machine. Are the nki files still available? Did you get anywhere with replacing maestro tools with scripts? If there is anything I could do to help move this forward I would be willing (will grind out a set of instructions across files if that would help). I have a couple of orchestral pieces to render and the GPO woodwinds are good, but the strings seem to fall well short of GOS. Thanks in advance for thinking about this,

Paul

Oliver Vessey
11-09-2007, 05:20 AM
FYI, I have found that Kontakt 3 seems to import GOS much more successfully than K2. Haven't had an exhaustive look yet, but initial impressions look good.

pcor
11-12-2007, 01:58 PM
FYI, I have found that Kontakt 3 seems to import GOS much more successfully than K2. Haven't had an exhaustive look yet, but initial impressions look good.

Thanks Oliver. I was not planning to go to kontakt 3 since I never use the libraries (just GPO, GOS the Strad and a few pianos). Are there other good things that someone using it for classical should know? Perhaps it would be worth the upgrade for just getting GOS in working order. Thanks again,

Paul

fred Holmes
11-12-2007, 04:26 PM
I still have the .nki files at home (I'm in Vermont for two weeks)
Give me a tickle with an emailaddress after Nov 21 and I'll send them to you.

Fred

pcor
11-13-2007, 08:38 PM
I still have the .nki files at home (I'm in Vermont for two weeks)
Give me a tickle with an emailaddress after Nov 21 and I'll send them to you.

Fred

Wow, thanks Fred. I'll pm you with my email. Maybe I can be busy for Thanksgiving!

Paul