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Richard N.
09-10-2005, 03:03 PM
I think that this could be the first Jazz entry in The Academy :D

In the GPO chat on Friday (Sept 9th) the subject of Jazz symphonies and extended forms came up.

I am no scholar, but I would like to recommend an album called "The Way Up" by the Pat Metheny Group as a superlative example of an extended Jazz composition/performance. It is a continuous piece lasting 68' 10" (although marked as 4 separate tracks on the cd for navigation purposes).

I was fortunate enough to see this performed live by the group and was awed by the emotional power of the piece.

It would be great if anyone would like to discuss this composition/recording here in The Academy.

:)

DPDAN
09-10-2005, 03:27 PM
Richard, Pat Metheny is my favorite guitarist, beside Karl Garrett :)

I am ashamed of myself for not having bought this CD yet. I have mnot even heard the whole thing. His sounds along with Lyle Mays are to die for.

His style has been very influencial in my mixing through the years,,,, depending of course on the music. :)

Dan

Richard N.
09-10-2005, 03:43 PM
Dan,

I think that I have learned more about chord structures/usage from Pat's music than anyone or anything else - there is a freedom there that would appear to follow no pattern other than simply sounding great. Very liberating!

For someone like me who was brought up on Big Band music, I found the Bob Curnow album of Metheny's music an excellent introduction to his work. (the Curnow cd was also the route that Mrs N. took which ended up with her being besotted with Pat's work). Are you aware of this album?

I urge you to listen to "The Way Up":) I would love to hear your impressions of this work which is essentially built from a theme of only three or four notes.

efreitag
09-10-2005, 04:30 PM
For discussing "extended Jazz forms" I also recommend listening to Kenny Wheeler´s "Music for Large and Small Ensembles"! Completely different approach than Metheny´s "Way up" (and Curnow´s, both being extraordinary CDs).

CallMeZoot
09-10-2005, 05:01 PM
Check out Ornette Coleman's "Skies of America," kind of a free jazz concerto for sax and orchestra.

Also Mingus's "The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady," an extended dance (or theatre?) piece for a small jazz ensemble.

The Gil Evans/Miles Davis collaborations (Sketches of Spain, Concierto De Aranjuez, etc.), and also "Aura," by some Scandinavian dude, played by Miles Davis and an ensemble. All good examples of larger-scale jazz.

There's a piece called Channel 1 Suite--I forget who wrote it, but it was a Buddy Rich Band piece--and it's a large scale piece for big band.

I'll think of some more,
chris.

Jonny Lost
09-10-2005, 07:27 PM
Hey guys,

I hope you don't mind me jumping in on this conversation. You guys should really check out Big Train by Winton Marsalis. Awesome. Also, I don't know if it really counts, but Harry Connick Jr. tried an extended composition. I think it was Star Fish, if I'm not mistaken. Kind of neat take on the subject.

Of course, let's not forget the master, Duke Ellington! He wrote "suites" that can be called extended forms. Check out the "Far East Suite", the "Latin American Suite" and the "New Orleans Suite". There may be more, but I can't remember them right now.

Happy Listening

Jonny

southportJim
09-10-2005, 08:17 PM
I think that this could be the first Jazz entry in The Academy :D
...
It would be great if anyone would like to discuss this composition/recording here in The Academy.

:)

Richard,
This is a subject that I would like to see discussed here. I'm not familiar with this piece, but will be after my order arrives from Amazon in a few days.

We'll be back then!
;-)

Jeff Turner
09-11-2005, 05:48 PM
Richard,

Thanks for bringing this piece to my attention. I'll definately check it out.

My favorite symphonic jazz work (for lack of a better term) is a recording by Bill Evans, SYMBIOSIS. It features the exceptional writing skills of Claus Ogerman and the incomparable playing of Evans with a full orchestral accompaniment. It's truly a masterpiece.

Jeff

Deigratia
09-11-2005, 08:02 PM
I want to chime in here on the glory of Claus Ogerman. Buy his work called "Gate Of Dreams." The grooves are a bit old fashioned, but the melodies and harmonic structure are beautiful.Cheers,
Deigratia

CallMeZoot
09-12-2005, 09:17 PM
Don't forget Gunther Schuller, who coined the term "Third Stream," which was music which combined elements of classical and jazz. I can't say I'm especially familiar with his work, but he spoke at my grad school and I liked the music he played for us. There was one piece that utilized a full orchestra + a full jazz big band, but I believe he owns the only recording--I don't think it's ever been recorded commercially.

I'm currently working on a sort of mini-concerto for jazz saxophone and an odd mixed ensemble--kind of along the lines of the evans/davis stuff, but with my own musical language. It will probably be a while before the piece gets off the ground, because I'm crazy busy here (4 jobs, 2 classes, music directing a show, conducting a choir, and a planning my wedding). But hopefully JABB (preordered with expedited shipping!) will help... If I ever finish this thing I'll post it.

chris.

Richard N.
09-13-2005, 04:30 AM
Hey, it's good to see all you knowledgeable Jazzers creeping out of the woodwork.

Thanks for the suggestions - I'll have to check with the finance department first, but I feel a CD buying session coming on.

Is there enough interest in ny first suggestion of "The Way Up" as a discussion piece, or shall we just keep the thread to a general discussion on Extended Jazz Forms?

Perhaps the general discussion with recommendations for listening might be the best start until we get a concensus on which direction to take the thread.

Cheers guys.

Richard N.
09-22-2005, 04:57 PM
Richard,
This is a subject that I would like to see discussed here. I'm not familiar with this piece, but will be after my order arrives from Amazon in a few days.

We'll be back then!
;-)

So Jim, did it arrive? have you listened to it? do you hate it or love it?

:)

southportJim
09-22-2005, 05:08 PM
So Jim, did it arrive? have you listened to it? do you hate it or love it?

:)

Richard,

It got here a couple of days ago and I have been listening on the morning drive to work. I've gotten all the way thru once, but not yet at one sitting, so it's hard to comment on the form at this point.

However, I do like the music and will be interested in "in-depth" discussions about the form or any other aspect of this piece. This Saturday is reserved for listening to it straight through and taking some notes (as well as, hopefully, making some progress on Challenge iV).

jim
;-)

Dave Hoffman
09-23-2005, 12:50 AM
I saw Metheny live last weekend at the Monterey Jazz Festival. He played with Christian McBride, David Sanchez, and Antonio Sanchez. It was a great set, and more mainstream jazz than his usual fare. I picked up the CD at the festival but haven't had time to listen to it yet. I'll see if I can get to it this weekend.

I like those Curnow arrangements as well! Some of them are pretty hard!! I have had bands play First Circle, If I Could, and Minuano.

Richard N.
09-23-2005, 02:25 AM
Dave, I've played the Curnow arrangements in both the trombone and piano chairs - I love them.

The hardest part i have found is in First Circle - first of all getting the band to do the clapped intro properly, and then making the first piano entry which I found quite mind twisting. :)

Dave Hoffman
09-23-2005, 10:20 PM
Dave, I've played the Curnow arrangements in both the trombone and piano chairs - I love them.

The hardest part i have found is in First Circle - first of all getting the band to do the clapped intro properly, and then making the first piano entry which I found quite mind twisting. :)

That sax soli that was originally acoustic guitar isn't easy either!