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janila
11-23-2004, 10:05 PM
There has to be some professionally recorded reverb impulse libraries in wav format that aren't limited to one software. Still the only ones I've come across to are the two Ernest Cholakis Pure Space cds. Based on the demos they sound marvellous but the price is simply too much. $399 for 55 impulses? Does anyone have those? There has to be other companies that have recorded concert halls and other real ambiences and sell them without a dedicated convolution processor. Where are they?

I have downloaded every free impulse I have found and I have the Spirit Canyon impulse cds. Still I'm lacking especially in the concert hall impulses that I could use with VSL samples. I'm using Voxengo Pristine Space.

Larry Seyer
12-02-2004, 02:31 AM
There has to be some professionally recorded reverb impulse libraries in wav format that aren't limited to one software. Still the only ones I've come across to are the two Ernest Cholakis Pure Space cds. Based on the demos they sound marvellous but the price is simply too much. $399 for 55 impulses? Does anyone have those? There has to be other companies that have recorded concert halls and other real ambiences and sell them without a dedicated convolution processor. Where are they?

I have downloaded every free impulse I have found and I have the Spirit Canyon impulse cds. Still I'm lacking especially in the concert hall impulses that I could use with VSL samples. I'm using Voxengo Pristine Space.


I will be releasing a 5 volume set of Rooms and Units for GigaPulse in early 2005.

A small sample of rooms is included in the new "Larry Seyer Acoustic Drums" library. (see http://www.larryseyer.com/lsl for more information).

Unfortunately, these impluses are going to be available in GigaPulse format only.

The good news is that each bank of impulses is a complete room... 18 source placements and 7 channel surround.

If you own GigaStudio 3.0, you already have impluses from a $15,000 reverb unit via the "Larry Seyer Reverb" impulses that come with GS3. (each is a full bank with 15 source placements and 5 channel surround)

Best to you!

Larry Seyer

DKeenum
12-02-2004, 12:26 PM
It might be that the free impulses are good enough that it's not worth the development costs. Maybe they couldn't sell enough to make money. And then there is waves. If you buy the waves impulse reverb you get their impulses. Makes the price more attractive.

PeterRoos
12-13-2004, 01:10 PM
I have been planning to create a commercial library of surround impulse sets of the TC 6000 and one for the Lex 960. Several audio formats, sample rates and bit depths, etc.

However, I have postponed it for two reasons:

1) I have absolutely NO idea what risks I might be taking with legal issues with TCE and Lexicon. My current liability insurance (I run my own 1 person software engineering company) does not cover software exports to the US, for instance and I do not (yet) have an insurance for legal support.

2) I have also absolutely NO idea how much discs I could sell and thus it's very tricky to make a business plan with cost-benefit calculations. My last break-even calculations resulted in an end-user price of 65 euro per disc ($ 85). I think that is quite high - not too high for what you would get, but it is not in the range of quick "impulse" orders (pun intended ;) )

My costs would include: renting the two boxes (around 1200 euro for 1 week) including an RME Adat-AES/EBU converter; advertizing on NS, NoiseVault and V.I. (at least these 3), and maybe other forums, so that's several hundreds dollars more, a few weeks of sampling and editing time, plus getting a webshop up and running.

The idea of doing some music-related project(s) is very attractive for me. However, as I still do most of my IT-projects on hour-based invoicing the risks of the upfront investments seem to outweigh the potential benefits. :o

I really like to hear your opinions, if you use or intend to use convolution ambience plugins.

Would there be legal risks? There have been long debates on NoiseVault about this, most of the time leading to silly rants against AltiVerb. If I completely avoid any brand names and types, would that be enough? For instance T5999 and Lacs959.

And, what would be a reasonable estimate for orders, given some forum advertizing and discussions? 30-50? 100-150? I have really no idea.

Maybe a "group buy"? hehe! :D

FYI: I use Pristine Space (3 instances in my DAW of which 1 runs remotely via FX-Teleport) with impulses from Ernest Cholakis. Excellent quality, but mono-to-stereo only, alas. For that reason I would actually like to sample the TCE 6000 for my own use. There are currently no good stereo-to-stereo impulses on the market, unless you buy AltiVerb or IR-1. IMO the free impulses on the web are not really usable for a good orchestral sound.

Regards,

Ray Lindsley
12-14-2004, 04:47 PM
Peter,
I think the legal question is interesting. I am not an attorney, but I do own an impulse disk that Samplitude put out about 4-5 years ago that provides impulses from TC and Lexicon high end units, so it seems theoretically possible. The impulses were designed to be used in Samplitude or Sound Forge Acoustic Mirror. I don't know, however, if Samplitude paid anything to the companies or got their permission. When I get home, I'll check the documentation to see if they disclose any licensing or copyright- I don't recall seeing anything. I know I paid at least $100 for them, but I'm pretty sure it was $200.

I would be interested in these impulses if the quality was there, even if they were relatively expensive- they're still cheaper than the real boxes!

janila
12-15-2004, 08:19 PM
Unfortunately, these impluses are going to be available in GigaPulse format only.Your products are interesting but the platform is a problem. I don't even want to use GigaStudio as my sampler so using it as a reverb unit would be rather silly. GS3 doesn't have any kind of licence control for the samples/impulses (right?) so releasing the the spaces also in .wav format wouldn't be that much more insecure. Are you doing only rooms suitable to be used with your drums or are you doing bigger spaces as well?

Sampling hardware units has to be legal as there are tons of free Lexicon and TC impulses available in the Noisevault and they have been available for ages. There are even impulses from the M6000 and they are called M6000 impulses. Of course it might be a different case for commercial approaches. You don't sign any kind of an agreement with TC or Lexicon when buying their units so I don't know of any legal ground they could have for a case against selling impulses from their units.

Peter, what would be your approach to the impulses so that your product would have commercial potential even when there are free impulses available of the units? I'm not saying it would be impossible to sell those but they would have to be something a bit special.

I've been playing with the idea of doing my own impulses of actual spaces. I would be doing them so that it wouldn't be an economical disaster even if I would use them myself without selling them to anyone. Then I might sell them cheap as downloadable files from a web store. No high profile concert halls and churches but good sounding spaces as generally named impulses like Wooden concert hall, width x meters, height y meters, distance z meters. I have most of the equipment required to do them and I could transport them by train. The biggest problem would obviously be the access to the spaces. The other option is buying the Waves IR-L. ;) Maybe I'll keep playing with the idea for a while.

Larry Seyer
12-15-2004, 08:44 PM
Your products are interesting but the platform is a problem. I don't even want to use GigaStudio as my sampler so using it as a reverb unit would be rather silly. GS3 doesn't have any kind of licence control for the samples/impulses (right?) so releasing the the spaces also in .wav format wouldn't be that much more insecure. Are you doing only rooms suitable to be used with your drums or are you doing bigger spaces as well?

What I said was GigaPulse... not GigaStudio... There is a difference.

GigaPulse VST should be out soon and you can use that plugin without GigaStudio... the libraries that I am working on are for GigaPulse (both the VST version and the one that comes with GigaStudio Orchestra... the library works in both).

We are developing a 5 volume set... The content ranges from simple reverb units to real spaces that range in size from tiny to huge...

Each release will be specialized in one area... and the price will be set so that it is very affordable... (we want people to buy the entire set, but will offer it in pieces if that is easier for them)




Sampling hardware units has to be legal as there are tons of free Lexicon and TC impulses available in the Noisevault and they have been available for ages. There are even impulses from the M6000 and they are called M6000 impulses. Of course it might be a different case for commercial approaches. You don't sign any kind of an agreement with TC or Lexicon when buying their units so I don't know of any legal ground they could have for a case against selling impulses from their units.

The fact that there are free Lexicon and TC impluses available for free in the Noisevault doesn't make them legal does it? :-)

Best to you!

Larry Seyer

Larry Seyer
12-15-2004, 10:26 PM
I have an interesting situation. I recently bought the TL Space convolution reverb plug-in to use with PT Accel hardware (it runs with very low latency on the Accel DSP, not using any CPU cycles). In addition to having a lot of its own presets, it also reads the IR's from my other convolution reverbs. It sees the huge compilation of IR's from my Logic 7 installation, plus my other convolution applications.

I could drive myself totally INSANE auditioning all the convolution reverb options I have and never get any work done.

Sometimes, more options is simply too many options. ;)

Besides, I've found that a lot of verb detail is really only apparent in fairly sparse contexts, and I have a tendency to produce stuff a tad on the thick side.:)

Lee Blaske

I totally understand.

Which is why we're considering grouping and naming our GigaPulse banks into what they would be most appropriately used for...

A description of a room's dimensions and material makeup tells the end user nothing about what it would be good for... So we're considering the possibility of 'suggesting' where each bank would be best used via their names.

Of course, naming anything changes its original intent... But it doesn't hurt to at least point the end user in the direction of where each bank may work best first.

Actually, I would be interested in hearing any suggestions as to how this would be best handled...

Please send any suggestions concerning the naming conventions to me at:

gigapulse@larryseyer.com

Best to you!

Larry Seyer

Houston Haynes
12-15-2004, 11:30 PM
I think that this year will be a good one for impulse libraries. I keep bugging Spirit Canyon Audio to release surround versions of their impulse set. It's wild, wooly and sometimes even downright scary... :eek: :D

In the absense of a specifically designed surround set I've managed to work in surround by picking several of their stereo impluses and running them in a dual "true stereo" mode. Loads of fun that you can get away with in imaginary spaces.

There's also Voxengo's Impulse Modeler program, which allows you to design some very nice, complicated spaces that do an incredible job of representing a "real" space. Alexy is working on a surround-capable version as well that I'll be buying as soon as its available.

Garritan has also made mention of an impulse project in his forum, but no details are forthcoming yet. He's already released some great stereo impulses with GOS, and I imagine that he'll build on that in some way.

The Winter NAMM convention is only 5 or so weeks away. We'll probably see more announcements around that time.

Houston Haynes
12-15-2004, 11:33 PM
I have been planning to create a commercial library of surround impulse sets of the TC 6000 and one for the Lex 960. Several audio formats, sample rates and bit depths, etc.

However, I have postponed it for two reasons:

1) I have absolutely NO idea what risks I might be taking with legal issues with TCE and Lexicon.
Whether it's free or commercial, you take the risk of getting cooked unless you have a licensing deal or some other form of permission from the companies ahead of time.

janila
12-16-2004, 06:45 AM
GigaPulse VST should be out soon and you can use that plugin without GigaStudio... the libraries that I am working on are for GigaPulse (both the VST version and the one that comes with GigaStudio Orchestra... the library works in both).Ah, this is interesting and I wasn't aware of this. Will the GigaPulse VST be available separately or do you have to buy GigaStudio to get it? I assume that the GigaPulse VST won't be free and even as a sold product it most likely won't include the GigaStudio impulse library. Therefore it is again easier to buy the IR-L as the price for the other solutions aren't going to be cheaper. More likely I would pay 400 for a .wav impulse library that is worth the price and use it with the great Pristine Space I already have than pay 400 for Waves with it's own engine which I woulnd't need if the impulses were available in .wav format.

The impulse modeler is a nice tool but the impulses don't sound as sweet as the commercial impulses sampled from real spaces. It provides an option for synthetic reverbs but I haven't been able to get the orchestral sound I want with it as the reverb will lack the needed body and fullness.


The fact that there are free Lexicon and TC impluses available for free in the Noisevault doesn't make them legal does it? :-)Certainly not. But the fact that the impulses have been available for months and the site is still providing them gives some kind of indication, doesn't it. ;) I'm certain that people at TC and Lexicon are aware of the situation but there might be nothing they can legally do about it.

Ray Lindsley
12-16-2004, 09:42 AM
Peter, I looked at the Impulse libray that I was referring to. It came out in 1997 and had impulses from TC M2000 and M5000, and Lexicon 430L. It was distributed by Sek'd for their Samplitools Room Simulator and similar devices. It was produced by Jim Roseberry of Studio Cat (he produced tha fantastic Purrfect drum samples). his email address is jim@studiocat.com -maybe you can email him and ask about the legal issue. I noticed they referred to the trademarks on the names of the TC and Lexi units and also mentioned that the impulses were not designed to replace the real hardware units. HTH

Daryl
12-16-2004, 10:14 AM
Ah, this is interesting and I wasn't aware of this. Will the GigaPulse VST be available separately or do you have to buy GigaStudio to get it?

Allegedly the GigaPulse is a VST, so you could run it from your DAW without even using GigaStudio, but Tascam have been a bit quiet of late about when (if) it will be released.

Daryl

Larry Seyer
12-16-2004, 10:24 AM
Ah, this is interesting and I wasn't aware of this. Will the GigaPulse VST be available separately or do you have to buy GigaStudio to get it? I assume that the GigaPulse VST won't be free and even as a sold product it most likely won't include the GigaStudio impulse library. Therefore it is again easier to buy the IR-L as the price for the other solutions aren't going to be cheaper. More likely I would pay 400 for a .wav impulse library that is worth the price and use it with the great Pristine Space I already have than pay 400 for Waves with it's own engine which I woulnd't need if the impulses were available in .wav format.

GigaPulse will be availalbe seperately from GigaStudio... It will be a stand alone product with it's own libraries.

I do not know the prices of anything yet... But as I know them, I will post them.

There will be a provision in Gigapulse to import your own impulses... :-)



The impulse modeler is a nice tool but the impulses don't sound as sweet as the commercial impulses sampled from real spaces. It provides an option for synthetic reverbs but I haven't been able to get the orchestral sound I want with it as the reverb will lack the needed body and fullness.


True...

I own Voxengo's Impulse modeler... and although the concept is fantastic... The results are less than fantastic.

Originally, I had thought that I could design my own spaces for my upcoming libraries, but what I have found out is that there is no substitute for the real things. (be it rooms or units)



Certainly not. But the fact that the impulses have been available for months and the site is still providing them gives some kind of indication, doesn't it. ;) I'm certain that people at TC and Lexicon are aware of the situation but there might be nothing they can legally do about it.

I see where you're going... but the analogy would be the MP3 Napster thing.

Just because everybody was doing it didn't make it legal. :-)

Best to you!

Larry Seyer

janila
12-16-2004, 02:00 PM
... but the analogy would be the MP3 Napster thing.

Just because everybody was doing it didn't make it legal. :-)I don't think it would be hard to close Noisevault if they were doing anything illegal. Either TC and Lexicon don't care or there isn't anything they can legally do.

crna59
12-16-2004, 09:42 PM
I don't think it would be hard to close Noisevault if they were doing anything illegal. Either TC and Lexicon don't care or there isn't anything they can legally do.

Noisevault posted impulses from Altiverb about 6 months ago and Audio Ease made them take them off for copyright reasons. You can read a little here:http://noisevault.com/elephanttalk/viewtopic.php?t=458&highlight=altiverb.

Per Lichtman
12-17-2004, 03:59 AM
I remember the Altiverb issue, but that was different. It was a question of essentially using technology to respost the very impulse files that were already in existence. What other people seem to have been talking about is simply creating impulses of existing hardware or space. It's a different situation as far as the legal issues concerned. I'm not a specialist in the field and so I don't know how the laws end up turning out but keep in mind that the legality of selling your own sample libraries based on patches from your hardware synth that you bought vs. those on a software synth you bought also differ. Just some food for thought so that we keep the differences clear.

janila
12-17-2004, 11:38 AM
Noisevault posted impulses from Altiverb about 6 months ago and Audio Ease made them take them off for copyright reasons. You can read a little here:http://noisevault.com/elephanttalk/viewtopic.php?t=458&highlight=altiverb.Which proves my point. If there was anything wrong with distributing impulses from hardware units the impulses wouldn't be available at Noisevault, atleast not anymore.

Robert Kooijman
12-18-2004, 02:52 PM
The original question was regarding impulses in WAV.

And for good reasons: Pristine Space for example does an excellent job using WAVs, and at very reasonable cost. For now I don't see much point of investing in anything else, and certainly not something that binds me to a specific vendor!

Regarding Altiverb:
Since these guys love dancing to the tunes of Steve Jobs and refuse porting to PC, most of their impulses have already been converted to WAV by users. It's a fairly straightforward process using e.g. Wavelab. It's not hard to undertand why more and more prefer to use a VST instrument like SIR or Pristine Space instead.

Again you see the net result of old-style proprietary or closed-shop thinking: end-users taking matters in their own hands. Raising legal issues is not likely to change that.

Larry: why Gigapulse?

Larry Seyer
12-18-2004, 09:59 PM
The original question was regarding impulses in WAV.

And for good reasons: Pristine Space for example does an excellent job using WAVs, and at very reasonable cost. For now I don't see much point of investing in anything else, and certainly not something that binds me to a specific vendor!

Regarding Altiverb:
Since these guys love dancing to the tunes of Steve Jobs and refuse porting to PC, most of their impulses have already been converted to WAV by users. It's a fairly straightforward process using e.g. Wavelab. It's not hard to undertand why more and more prefer to use a VST instrument like SIR or Pristine Space instead.

Again you see the net result of old-style proprietary or closed-shop thinking: end-users taking matters in their own hands. Raising legal issues is not likely to change that.

Larry: why Gigapulse?

Why GigaPulse?

Here are some of my reasons for using GigaPulse...

The sound is excellent...
There are multiple source placements (which are easy to select and use... and are saved with the performance setting in standard FXB files)
It's 7 channel surround (I know, so is voxengo)
The Perspective control works.
It's efficient. (allowing more FX for less power)
You can excapsulate an entire room in one .IIS file (I know that this file format is proprietary, but encapsulation into one file is a benefit compared to seperate wave files.. i.e. eliminates things like "where is that Left Surround Rear impulse again?")
Changing one slider can control all impulses and retain their relative position (other modelers may have this feature also)
32 bit float processing throughout. (some have this, others don't)
Room and parameters are saved with the Instrument in GigaStudio.. (this is a biggie for me!!!)
It is automate-able... (parameters can be controlled via MIDI in real time)

These are some of the reasons for me...

I'm sure there are counter points to every reason I listed... But overall, for me, it's about the sound...

GigaPulse sounds great.

Best to all!

Larry Seyer

PS

I don't know if you've used GigaPulse or not... But if you haven't, you should at least try it.

ixm
12-18-2004, 10:24 PM
Regarding Altiverb:
Since these guys love dancing to the tunes of Steve Jobs and refuse porting to PC, most of their impulses have already been converted to WAV by users. It's a fairly straightforward process using e.g. Wavelab. It's not hard to undertand why more and more prefer to use a VST instrument like SIR or Pristine Space instead.

I use only PC. So how hard exactly would it be to purchase Altiverb and convert the impulses for PC use? Would this damage the quality of the impulses?

Robert Kooijman
12-19-2004, 07:25 AM
Larry,

thank you for pointing some of the advantages of Gigapulse.

Having e.g. settings saved in .fxb and file encapsulation are indeed useful features.

Don't own GS3 or Gigapulse, but I'm quit happy using Halion 3's megatrig driving multiple-outs towards Pristine Space. You can do a lot already now with such a setup. Yes, you need to assign multiple WAV's for stereo to stereo/quad, but this also offers benefits.

It's easy and fun to create unique spaces just by combining e.g. the Amsterdam Concertgebouw mid with some amphitheatre far responses.
You can easily control/automate these things in real time or aided by plugins in Cubase SX/Halion, and have perspectives twirling around like hell... Great stuff!

I'll give GS a try someday, but first I would love to see what next week Halion 3's update has in stock...

IXM:

Many people and studio's use Altiverb great converted impulses. Just search...

It's not hard at all to convert them to WAV. It can easily be done in Wavelab once you have basic settings correct. There are a few things to think of since not all impulses are in excactly the same format (channel set-up, little/big indian, bit-width). A consistent WAV file naming scheme is very usefull given the huge mount of impulses. Batch-processing, though very fast, is less desireable for this reason.

Don't want to get more specific than that. Not because of Audioease's legal threats (they felt no shame borrowing Lexicon and TC stuff), but I do respect the rules of this geat forum.

P de Caumette
12-20-2004, 07:14 PM
It's easy and fun to create unique spaces just by combining e.g. the Amsterdam Concertgebouw mid with some amphitheatre far responses.
You can easily control/automate these things in real time or aided by plugins in Cubase SX/Halion, and have perspectives twirling around like hell... Great stuff!
Hi Robert,
would you mind describing in more details how you use the multi impulses capabilities of Pristine Space, the kind of automation you program and the results that you get when doing so.

I have used PS in a very conservative way so far and I am very interested with the possibilities.

Thanks!

Robert Kooijman
12-22-2004, 01:15 PM
Hi Patrick!

It's only fairly recently that I started playing around with impulses, so I'm by no means an expert here!

Not being a fan the 'dry-potato' sound so common these days, I'm always experimenting with various sauces & dressings. Pristine Space makes it possible to run various IR's of very high quality in parallel.

I use PS mainly in the following ways:
1) as a standard reverb with input levels controlled by & if needed automated from Cubase / Halion
2) as a VST instrument with outputs routed to an array of FX plugins, automated from Cubase
3) the old 'poor mans Lexicon' way, where instead of an Akai now Halion plays re-sampled reverb patches
4) any combination of above

Use of course varies. Less classic oriented stuff might see some wild modulations of a given soundsource, that can include PS itself. Just think of panning / chorussing / distorting / filtering / leslieing some totally different IR's from PS. So, rather then just panning / changing an instruments source with a static reverb, just have its surrounding boiling as in your wildest dreams or nightmares:)

For larger then life patches, to make an accoustic instrument sounding better then it is while increasing playability, I mess with Halion's megatrig to have different IR's doing different things. Recently a lot of discussion hapens on the piano front with respect to bpdy resonances and release sounds. While GS3 might offer some strong functionality here, I still haven't digged all of Halions possibilities!

It's interesting to hear e.g. PS being fed with different or pitch-modulated keys using some more adventurous Halion programming. Halions megatrig and folder structure just begs playing around with this!

By the way: using non-proprietary WAV IR's offer another huge advantage: you can easily create the weirdest IRs from mixing, mangling or modulating different impulses!

My wife now urges me to join for dinner, so I have to leave it here for now...

All the best, Robert

P de Caumette
12-22-2004, 02:50 PM
Hi Robert,

thank you for your detailed answer :)

I have the bad tendency of using PS for loading impulses and not taking advantage of the multi impulses capabilities.
Your post inspires me to look for more in there ;)

sporter
12-26-2004, 09:44 AM
Why GigaPulse?

... overall, for me, it's about the sound...

GigaPulse sounds great.





Yes, it sounds great. But really, I've found Pristine space to sound better. Gigapulse is very visual with nice pictures, but with blind listening test, Pristine Space is my preference everytime.

Larry Seyer
12-27-2004, 03:15 AM
Yes, it sounds great. But really, I've found Pristine space to sound better. Gigapulse is very visual with nice pictures, but with blind listening test, Pristine Space is my preference everytime.


Really?

I'm interested in how it sounds better to you...

What 'blind' test have you done with it? How many? What were the impulses that you loaded into each that were used as the 'control'?

The reason these questions are important is that many times content is confused with how the application sounds.

Specifically, I'm interested in what impulses you loaded into each that were used in your 'blind' test.

Best to you!

Larry Seyer

sporter
12-27-2004, 11:10 AM
Larry, my test were very uncontrolled, meaning I just loaded up some impulses, closed my eyes, and listened. Out of the box, factory presets, I can make Pristine space sound better than Gigapulse to me.

Larry Seyer
12-27-2004, 12:32 PM
Larry, my test were very uncontrolled, meaning I just loaded up some impulses, closed my eyes, and listened. Out of the box, factory presets, I can make Pristine space sound better than Gigapulse to me.


Good for you!

Best to you!

Larry Seyer

cAPSLOCK
12-28-2004, 02:02 PM
Noisevault posted impulses from Altiverb about 6 months ago and Audio Ease made them take them off for copyright reasons. You can read a little here:http://noisevault.com/elephanttalk/viewtopic.php?t=458&highlight=altiverb.


I want something to be absolutely clear.

I never did host, nor did I intend to host any of the impulses from the Altiverb collection.

We were asked by the folks at Audioease to not host them, and so I relayed that request via the board.

We were not asked to 'take anything down' since it was never there in the first place. ;)

cAPS
(Noisevault)

DPDAN
12-31-2004, 01:54 AM
I would just like Tascam to call me or email so I can give them some money to upgrade from ensemble to Orchestra, since Guitar Center told me that the only difference between the two is midi ports and voices. I bought GS3 Ensemble two weeks ago and learned last night that I have no Gigapulse :mad:
DPDAN :)

Interesting reading

DPDAN
01-19-2005, 12:19 PM
I received GS3 Orchestra from Tascam about a week after my previous post and it's all good!

DPDAN

PeterRoos
02-26-2005, 05:48 AM
There has to be some professionally recorded reverb impulse libraries in wav format that aren't limited to one software. Still the only ones I've come across to are the two Ernest Cholakis Pure Space cds. Based on the demos they sound marvellous but the price is simply too much. $399 for 55 impulses? Does anyone have those? There has to be other companies that have recorded concert halls and other real ambiences and sell them without a dedicated convolution processor. Where are they?

I have downloaded every free impulse I have found and I have the Spirit Canyon impulse cds. Still I'm lacking especially in the concert hall impulses that I could use with VSL samples. I'm using Voxengo Pristine Space.

I have released a new library, focusing on a high quality representation of a famous digital reverb unit: www.Samplicity.com

It includes a long list of excellent Hall impulse responses, in true stereo as well as mono-to-stereo.

Cheers,

Fokke van Saane
04-20-2005, 04:34 PM
There has to be some professionally recorded reverb impulse libraries in wav format that aren't limited to one software. Still the only ones I've come across to are the two Ernest Cholakis Pure Space cds. Based on the demos they sound marvellous but the price is simply too much. $399 for 55 impulses? Does anyone have those? There has to be other companies that have recorded concert halls and other real ambiences and sell them without a dedicated convolution processor. Where are they?

I have downloaded every free impulse I have found and I have the Spirit Canyon impulse cds. Still I'm lacking especially in the concert hall impulses that I could use with VSL samples. I'm using Voxengo Pristine Space.

Hello Janila, and many others.

If you think 399$ for 55 impulses is a lot, let me explain you something.

Making an IR is not as simple as firing a starter gun.

I have been recording IR's for Trillium Lane Labs the last few months. I have done a lot of halls, churches, and rooms. (Most of them is not online yet) To make an IR is 1-2 days work for shooting and processing and at least a day job to get a location booked. Some are very reserved about the idea that they will be sampled, some are honoured to be part of a library. Then there is the rent for the location, and that varies a lot of course.
I did my IR recordings with excellent microphones, preamps, AD converters and speaker. The set is top quality classical recording gear. Very pricey.

So how much do you think a set of 10 concert halls would cost to produce?

The Spirit Canyon stuff is not made on location but i recon there is a lot of time spend on it to make it. And research. My rough estimation is that one IR of him took at least two days. So, that makes 4 months work. Take an average salary of 4 months and divide that by the number of sales you expect. What do you get?

Selling a plugin is more profitable because they can be sold for much more then a single IR or collection and likely in a larger number.

I did some research on if it is possible to make IR's and sell them online at a website, for all platforms. But my feeling is that there are little requests because there is a lot around already, especially if you own Altiverb, TL space and/or Waves. For the people who use SIR there is not much quality available, but i don't think users of a free program have money to spend for a top class IR set. For the Voxengo users i have no idea what they miss and what they are willing to pay.

How much money would you like to spend for 10 concert halls or churches with three positions all in mono to stereo and stereo to stereo and quad versions?

I might start an online shop one day, i might not. It is more complicated then you think...and more costy then i hoped.

Fokke van Saane

Joseph Burrell
04-21-2005, 04:12 PM
Well my biggest hurdle with Pristine Space is that there is no IR library to speak of. Nothing against the freebies on the site, but there is a certain advantage to the knowledge that you are a owner of a collection that only paying users have (if that makes sense.) Anyone can download those IR's but only a number of people will buy the full product therefor getting the higher quality IR's. I'd say that Aleksey could charge $250 for Pristine Space provided there was a good sized collection of IR's for it. That said, I opted for his Pristine Space Lite for the time being and that may be a good avenue for someone to look at a distrubtion/sales collaboration with.

About a collection...

I would say that 100 dollars is all I'd be willing to let go of for an IR collection. I bought the Samplicity set from Peter and I absolutely treasure it. I can safely say that I'd love to see more sets from hardware units in the future as my interest in actual places is second to it.

I am also interest in wierd effects available through impulses, so long as they have some musical or FX value. Just trashing an IR and saying, here you go, and IR for effects is not meaningful. But a tried and tested IR that clearly offers ambient effect or adds an atmosphere to an instrument is great.

Just my thoughts.

janila
04-21-2005, 07:09 PM
Hello Janila, and many others.

If you think 399$ for 55 impulses is a lot, let me explain you something.

Making an IR is not as simple as firing a starter gun.I'm familiar with the process but the beauty of the byte selling business is that you can sell copies of the work you have done instead of doing the work several times. :rolleyes: $399 is a lot considering that you need a separate convolution engine. With the engine the price can get so high that you can get Altiverb, Gigastudio 3 or Kontakt 2 for the same price. IR-L costs the same and already includes the engine. I bought the Kirk Hunter Concert Strings for $399 and I'm sure that recording three mic sets of full symphonic strings is more expensive than doing couple of impulses of the space, right? ;)

So with no disrespect for the impulse recording professionals I have to agree with Joseph, I would gladly pay $100 or slightly more for those 55 impulses.

Alan Lastufka
04-21-2005, 07:14 PM
I am also interest in wierd effects available through impulses, so long as they have some musical or FX value. Just trashing an IR and saying, here you go, and IR for effects is not meaningful. But a tried and tested IR that clearly offers ambient effect or adds an atmosphere to an instrument is great.

Just my thoughts.

JB,

You have my acoustic bass library - try the bass body impulse response I included with the library on a drum kit - you may be surprised. :)

Joseph Burrell
04-21-2005, 07:58 PM
I'd like to try it on Studio B. How 'bout it? LOL