PDA

View Full Version : Nicole's Suite 1, Opus 43 by Tchaikovsky



Garritan
07-31-2004, 01:32 PM
I am posting this beautiful demo that Nicole has submitted. Here is Suite 1, Opus 43 by Tchaikovsky for your listening pleasure.

http://www.garritan.com/mp3/nd-TchaikovskySuite1Opus43.mp3

It's great to hear one on Tchaikovsky's lesser known works. In a way it sometimes doesn't sound like it's Tchaikovsky, but then, as Nicole mentions "you begin to pick out little things like the string writing, runs, etc. that are so much his domain and retain that "mystic" sorta vibe that he seems to have".

There is an earlier version of this work Nicole did before taking into account the suggestions people made on the GPO Chat yesterday. If you wish, I can post that as well.

Enjoy!!!

Gary

William West
07-31-2004, 02:22 PM
This is a MUST HEAR!!!
Nicole has set the bar so high that I don't know if I will ever reach it! This recording (for me) was every bit as good as a fine symphony. I'm still in awe of Nicole's mastery - the expressive quality she achieves is simply amazing! Great work Nicole! Thank you for sharing your gift with us!
- William
By the way, Mr. Tchaikovsky did a really good job as well. :)

gardibolt
07-31-2004, 03:17 PM
Nicole is incredible. I wish she would tutor me on how to do this, because most of what I do with GPO sounds like rubbish. Obviously there's a way to make it sound 100% real, but it sure escapes me.

Nicole
07-31-2004, 03:58 PM
Few things I would like to say.

First of all thanks for the comments:)

There are a few things I take into consideration when doing mock ups. Number one is: Do I want this to be "hollywoodized"? Most of the time its no and I prefer a more "raw" feeling and consider the time in which it was written. I understand that the art of production for films music is just as much an artform. I simply prefer a more live feel(I leave mistakes in) sorta like its just a one shot recording from older style recording methods, a little dirty I guess I can call it lol. Im old fashioned when it comes to this, and its just personal preference:)

I did do all the suggestions in chat that people wanted to hear:) Little more aggressive F horns, bass boost, and less reverb. I only have one recording of this and have never been able to find another so it was my only reference besides the score(and as usual the recording doesnt sound quite like what is written, this is the human interpretation that makes music so wonderfull). I think the Air on G was a wonderful experiment because it shows how each one of us is different in how we percieve the experience.

Thanks again for the comments.

Styxx
07-31-2004, 05:03 PM
Nice! :)

KevinKauai
07-31-2004, 06:11 PM
Superb, Nicole! As GG said, it is so nice to hear a rendition of a piece which is fairly obscure. To hear it in a very competent version worthy of any world orchestra, I applaud your efforts wholeheartedly!

Much respect ... KevinKauai

EricWatkins
07-31-2004, 06:40 PM
Very Nice indeed! This is the best I have heard so far I think. Wow wow wow! It's still playing as I write and I'm becoming even more impressed as it plays on. You have a serious mastery of the midi data massage. My one question is; How do you get the fast attacks on the strings? These are the best fast string runs I've ever heard from GPO. Do you scoot your midi tracks backward at all to compensate for lazy attacks? It really sounds dynamite. Keep it up. Do you ever write your own music? Would love to hear it if you did. Take care.

Eric

Styxx
07-31-2004, 07:31 PM
I can't really say what I want to say cause if I say what I want to say it may be taken the other way so all I will say is it's OK. :D

DPDAN
07-31-2004, 09:38 PM
Holy Poop!

Theodor
07-31-2004, 10:04 PM
That sounds awesome Nicole, very good work .
I'd also like to be able to insert so many sounds in my compositions without everything getting lost or muffled up , i guess time will be the best teacher :)

keep up the good work

Styxx
07-31-2004, 10:13 PM
Yeah right! Nicole, you're just one of those musically talented gifted people who just looks at a piece of music and it comes alive! :)
Awesome freaking work darn it! There, I said it now and I feel better! :p

Error
07-31-2004, 10:33 PM
Both a great piece and a great rendering of it.

I second Theodor - you (and Tchaikovsky) did a wonderful job of keeping all the instruments, seperate, audible, and crisp.

sfiks
08-01-2004, 12:04 AM
The best! I downloaded it to listen and learn. Now I can see what's possible with GPO. Will I dare to post something after this? Don't know.
Thank you very much Nicole!

Craig Reeves
08-01-2004, 01:45 AM
Nicole, sweetheart I've got three words for ya.....


WRITE A TUTORIAL!

This is just off the chain! Definitely an example of what this sample library can do! Dang I hate you! lol! Awesome work!

Nicole
08-01-2004, 07:53 PM
My one question is; How do you get the fast attacks on the strings? These are the best fast string runs I've ever heard from GPO. Do you scoot your midi tracks backward at all to compensate for lazy attacks?

Eric
Sorry for the late response. Im not sure if this is a technical thing, but I found out thru this forum that raising the latency of the soundcard to the highest for playback editing once you have everything inputed and also minimizing the amount of notes allowed for patches that tend to sustain a little further then you intend helps. Also I think the short bow patches are the way to go when doing or emulating spiccato or other shorter type bowing techniques. The auto alternate rids of that horrid what I have come to learn as "machine gun" effect. Secondly the variation knob is always in use when runs are prominant so the tuning is more realistic. I dont know much about any other sequencers but in sonar you can change the lenght of a note which is very helpfull with more aggressive runs, it gives the option in percentages and I like to vary that percentage. Its I guess the tiny details of a single phrase that are overlooked. Maybe if changing soundcard settings on playback doesnt give you the attacks you want with the strings try doubling them with sust + short and short bows maybe? Oh and have you looked at the velocities? Oh and speaking of velocity, when considering phrasing I found that when looking at a written phrase to start it with a sharper attack(depending on the phrase not to hard or hard) and back off the velocity and using the legato feature until the phrase is done, but that depends on the type of phrase written.
I do move stuff around like you say but for a different reason and thats more of a humanize thing especially when there are unisons playing the same line. Hope this helps. I honestly have not had a problem with lazy attacks in the strings and this might be a setting issue. It was for me, but when I set my soundcard to really high latency as suggested for playback it solved most all my problems.


Nicole is incredible. I wish she would tutor me on how to do this, because most of what I do with GPO sounds like rubbish. Obviously there's a way to make it sound 100% real, but it sure escapes me.
The tools I have found to be most usefull are what is given with GPO. All I know about the patches is that they use some sort of filter as I understand that changes the sound and the knobs and their respective CC #. I tend to use the modwheel the most and throughout a whole piece it never rests, it sorta has for every note a variation of volume for each section(not huge mod wheel changes but just sorta wavering in the general volume area of the section of the piece). The tuning variation knob is a wonderfull thing and for a piece like this where everything is in motion constantly I just raised it to around 15 percent with all the shorter note durations.
Here is the section where the F horns take the melody in unison just as an example, Patches used for this part were FF overlay, F overlay and two solos. I think the constant variation of modulation data gives it that human factor plus the varying note lentghts regardless of what is written.
http://home.cfl.rr.com/delly/Horns%20Melody.JPG
I found sometimes if the piece is already done either on paper or in a sequence to start with the segment that is has the highest dynamic volume and adjust all the instruments from that part first, and work backwards from that. This I found requires less mixing and fixing and is used as a reference point. I honestly say that I use no eq and prefer to let the reverb type do that for me.
I can say that im overwhelmed by the responses and to be honest it has all come by trial and error and I never even expected this to have such responses. I have always said one of the greatest teaching tools for me was to take just a segment of pre written music and work with only that and not a whole piece. Just keep pecking at it till it starts to breath. Use all the controls given to you. Doing short snippets is a great excercise. The first many things I tried with GPO ended up in the recycle bin.

(((Definitely an example of what this sample library can do! Dang I hate you! lol! Awesome work!)))

I agree, well not about hating me lol, gpo can be very expressive and I wouldnt trade it for the world, in a way I find it a better tool for both mock ups and compositions. I dont own or have played with any other library but when I read the instrumentation and all I consider it a strange method for orchestral reproduction to have all instruments recorded as sections. Granted these products sound really well and I have nothing against them, but for me the thing that makes GPO is the realism in that a 4 note chord F horn part with four players will be simply four players, but if its a section that would in essence be 16 players. The ability to divide realistically is just really neat. Secondly I think though I have no experience, that the ease of use and programming make this much easier to learn and use. I am not downgrading the other products I have listened to at all and I think they are wonderfull in their own right, but I dont want that steep learning curve or huge large drives just to fit the libraries.

I hope this helped with questions asked. I seriously go by trial and error Often times using recordings as a reference and listening to the little details and trying to reproduce that. Though this particular piece was so ingrained in my head because I played it a thousand times when I got the CD I didnt do much referencing of it hehe:)

Jerry W.
08-02-2004, 12:19 AM
Nicole,

I am a CHILD in my orchestral ability compared to you!!! "Well Done" doesn't even come close to expressing this!

Thanks again for the humility.

:)

Jerry

mschiff
08-02-2004, 01:21 PM
Incredible job, Nicole.

More of your original stuff, please.

-- Martin

Serge
08-02-2004, 01:25 PM
Nicole,

You've got the spirit of classical music and you could still realize the best mockups with the baddest samples library.

You could easily teach orchestration with GPO and reveal his high potentialities. Your agenda would be full.

Did you meet Tchaikovsky in your previous life ?

SergeD

Sepheritoh
08-02-2004, 02:57 PM
GREAT stuff Nicole. You really brings out the best in GPO.

And thanks for that tutorial. I also use Sonar so I appreciate your tips highly.

Karl Garrett
08-02-2004, 03:12 PM
Hi Nicole,

So you had to go and create another gem. You devil. :D I think I ran out of superlatives about 4 or 5 pieces back.


Though this particular piece was so ingrained in my head because I played it a thousand times when I got the CD I didnt do much referencing of it hehe:)

You said what I believe makes the difference between you and the average GPOer. But you left out, because of your modesty, an important factor. You donŐt listen with the same ears as most of us. You listen with gifted as well as trained ears. You have the ability to hear and absorb the extra dimensions that make not just good music, but great music. And because of this once you sit down to create either a version of someone elseŐsŐ music or something of your own, all these extra dimensions come back to dare I say haunt you, and you canŐt rest until they are realized. This is the gift or curse as the case may be of the extremely creative mind.

So, yes, the techniques you use may be the same ones that the rest of us use, and they are very important, but the extra magic you possess is your beautifully musical mind.

You are such a joy to have on this forum.

Karl

Houston Haynes
08-02-2004, 04:19 PM
:eek:

You missed a note back there... KIDDING! Good Lord, you'd think Peter got paid by the note. :D Brandenburg, eat your heart out.

Fantastic job, Nicole. It's really incredible to have a tool like GPO to do realizations - and your treatment is amazing. [bows with respect]

Hardy Heern
08-02-2004, 04:35 PM
Well Done Nicole!!:)

Absolutely brilliant (as usual!).

You've really mastered GPO to the extent that one wonders whether it's worth shelling out $3000 for more grandiose, but less versatile, sample orchestras. Better to spend ones time delving into the workings and variety GPO offers when correctly programmed. I and others have said time and time again......it ain't a matter of money it's a matter of understanding MIDI!:)

I'm so glad that you've gone back to doing the necessary tweaking.....the results are SOOOO worth it!:)

My little tanner's worth to those who are new to samplers and synths is that MIDI tweaking is what it's all about. GPO makes it easier than most. Even the most, VERY, expansive sampled library will sound like 'what they are' played straigtht from the 'box' ......like sampled libraries. Use the MIDI facilities in GPO and the world's your oyster!!

A little point gained from my 'MIDI active' years is that perhaps some don't realise that in the piano roll you can enter the notes. Then independently, and at a later time, you can record just the CC's; As long as they are on the same channel as the track you want to influence. You can take as many takes as you want and progressively mute the ones which you don't like. You can do this with all the variations that GPO presents.

This is much more practical than trying to do it real time.

I'm not worthy.

Frank (a distant ...very...admirer!)

PS Nicole.....I want to have your baby!!:) :) :) Also ...I appreciate the time you took to, graphically, show us the way!! Not everyone does that. How about the MIDI file ......or is this just asking tooo much??

ALSO, your stuff is never clipping like a lot of other stuff....just the final touch...IMHO.

Haydn
08-02-2004, 05:31 PM
This is awesome!!

What reverb are you using? You have just the right blend.

Hardy Heern
08-02-2004, 05:42 PM
This is awesome!!

What reverb are you using? You have just the right blend.
It's nice to see your posts around again Haydn...(or should I say Mr Beethoven's 5th!!) I guess you must be over most of your 'new' GPO work!!

best regards

Frank

DPDAN
08-02-2004, 11:26 PM
I just listened to it again.... Man! That was a lot of time spent.
NIcoole Nicole!!!!

mikea59
08-04-2004, 11:11 PM
I'm relatively new to the group and am just amazed at some of the work I have heard. I was particularly interested in Nicole's reference to how increasing latency improves the results of midi editing, this doesn't seem intuitive to me, can someone expand on this concept?

§eth
08-04-2004, 11:59 PM
My Goodness, No offense to Gary, but is this really the GPO? I don't mean that is a bad way, this is simply fantastic. I have been totaly blown away that you can get something this professional sounding out of a library that is 1/10th the cost other devolpers charge. Nichole hun you deserve a hi 5 and a hug that was just wonderful awesome job. Gary, I don't have words to discribe how great a service you are offering people with your products. I like the sound of that recording much better than many other demos posted of other library's here on this website. I am not articulate enough to express just how proud of both of you for a job well done. Good job and also good luck to you both!

Seth

Styxx
08-05-2004, 01:04 PM
I was listening to this again today. That's "Suite" Nicole!

Hardy Heern
08-05-2004, 04:49 PM
I was listening to this again today. That's "Suite" Nicole!
God am it Sal....I would have said that if I could have thought of it!!!:)

Frank

Styxx
08-06-2004, 11:29 AM
God am it Sal....I would have said that if I could have thought of it!!!:)

Frank
:D :D :D

Francesco
08-06-2004, 11:37 AM
great job Nicole.
Best regards.
Francesco