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Scott Buckley
06-06-2004, 03:33 AM
Hey peeps,

Here is a little product which goes quite often unnoticed, or it gets judged too harshly against other products by people who are faithful to their GPOs, their Gigs, or their EWQLs.

It is no other than the Edirol High Quality Orchestra. Sure the name is crap, but that is no premise to begin judging what this product can do. Sure, there will be people who read this who agree that it can do some quality stuff, but I have a feeling that the majority will roll their eyes. Look, see!

Im making this attempt to make budget composers and pros alike familiar with this product, and its capabilities as another low-cost (it retails for AUD$795), and low-on-space solution (Its actually a synthesiser, not a sample library) to create great sounding orchestral scores. I have been a user of this product for nearly 3 years, and have found it something quite capable of producing amazing material.

The demos on the edirol site suck, and dont show what this thing can do. Below are a few chosen samples I have created using this baby (yes, perhaps this IS a vehicle for self-promotion...):

Concerning Hobbits - http://www.mp3.com.au/track.asp?id=73748
Norghan Battle Waltz - http://www.mp3.com.au/track.asp?id=67616
Centaurs Lament - http://www.mp3.com.au/track.asp?id=66481
Who Wants to Live Forever - http://www.mp3.com.au/track.asp?id=74022
Star Wars Demo (Shhh...)http://www.mp3.com.au/track.asp?id=63216

Each have a kind of a different style, which shows a few good points of the HQO and what it can do, although the flute in Centaurs Lament is a little on the sad side....could have been tweaked a little more, but hey.

The Edirol has its good and bad points, some bads being that some solo instruments are a little unrealistic, including violins, and some brass, but ensemble instruments are quite amazing...the slow violin section especially is quite amazing, and gives a great realistic timbre to your string sections.

The onboard reverb (and chorus) is of quite an amazing quality as well, and fits with the synth perfectly, which can vary your sound from a grandiose cathedral sound, to a room better suited for chamber groups. Neato.

Anyway, anyone use this as well? What are your opinions? Please share!

-s

R. Glenn
06-06-2004, 07:04 AM
Nice work Scott. :)

I personally agree with your point completely. As far as orchestral renderings go in terms of realistic sound, I've heard stuff made with VSL that IMHO doesn't even come close to what you've posted here.

Programs like this one (Edirol HQ Orchestra) or Reason 2 (which can actually produce some very nice orchestral renderings) are often not considered "serious" by many. In fact, some will laugh when presented with the notion of making orchestral music with Reason 2 (it comes with a 500 MB orchestral library).

Also, old samples like the Roland strings or EMU soundfonts can sound great in the right hands.

Peeps tend to underestimate the potential of many cheaper or "low-end" programs, thinking that the high-end sample libraries will make anything the make sound good. However, a high-end library also requires a high-level understanding of the crucial basics...or you'll still be getting very low-end results.

Bottom line: It's not the tool, it's how you use it...and I think your above demos pretty much proves that point Scott. Thank's for sharing. :)

Cheers

Rodney

bouche
06-06-2004, 08:02 AM
Hey Scott,

I also use the Edirol HQ, and as Scott has proved, you 'can' get some amazing sounds from it - especially as it's just a 100MB of samples (they must be samples cunningly looped!). However you have to exploit it's strengths. eg the slow violins, the horns, spicatto strings and tremolo..... so it can be very restrictive on your composition style. some of the instruments sound great around middle C but 1 octave up and they sound terrible! also it isn't much good for fast string runs.

Here's a couple of tracks i'm working on with it:

http://www.filmisthetruth.co.uk/music/wonder_awe.mp3
http://www.filmisthetruth.co.uk/music/sad_raux.mp3
http://www.filmisthetruth.co.uk/music/assycorrellia_music_rough2-01.mp3

And here's an example of how it can sound rubbish, however long you spend tweaking it!!!! the woodwind just don't have the attack sftz i need!

http://www.filmisthetruth.co.uk/music/Fires_of_the_fates_rough1.mp3

i need more choice (more than 2 cymbal crashes!!) and more quality... so am considering buying EWQL silver to run along side the edirol, but not sure.... any thoughts??

Edward
06-06-2004, 02:59 PM
I've used this VST extensively for several projects. I love the simplicity of it.
I have more recently switched to VSL Pro Edition but I find myself still using this as sort of a music notepad to get basic ideas down.

You can get some nice sounds out of it.

If your curious take a listen to these tracks. They range from short ques for games to a short film score. Prisoner and The Crypt use some Absynth, as well The Crypt and Noble King have a chior patch running in Kontakt.

http://www.dandlewood.com/prisonerfinal.mp3
http://www.dandlewood.com/herosfanfare.mp3
http://www.dandlewood.com/thethief.mp3
http://www.dandlewood.com/thecrypt.mp3
http://www.dandlewood.com/battlefield.mp3
http://www.dandlewood.com/nobleking.mp3
http://www.dandlewood.com/darkempire.mp3

Scott Buckley
06-06-2004, 06:35 PM
Hey! Isnt it my good friend Chris? hehe....

Definately excellent work there mate. You can get some excellent timbres from the HQO!



i need more choice (more than 2 cymbal crashes!!) and more quality... so am considering buying EWQL silver to run along side the edirol, but not sure.... any thoughts??

Ive heard that the Silver is a great choice to use with the Edirol...apparently the samples and the reverbs match quite well, in comparison to, say GPO, which I think sounds a little different. But I cant actually commit to this, because Ive never heard them together.

I know a fella named Philip Chance who does though, who apparently comes to these forums....if yur out there Philip, enlighten us! Or anyone else for that matter. Ive been curious myself as to whether I should buy something like EWQL Silver or GPO....

-s

O Boy
06-06-2004, 11:13 PM
Ya know, I looked into the Edirol a while back. From what I heard of the "official" posted demos, I wasn't really impressed. Now that I've listened to all of this stuff, I am!

In the interim, I've picked up both EWQLSO Silver & GPO. Which would be a better fit for Edirol users? I think it depends upon your knowledge & the way you work.

IMHO, GPO demands a thorough background in orchestration. If you can make a real deal orchestra sound good, clean and effective, you can make GPO sing. My orchestration chops are anemic, so I haven't been able to make GPO sound real well--yet.

Silver is a bit more set-and-forget. I have a track on my Broadjam site called 3am Train, all done very quickly with Silver. That should give you an idea of what can be done with it in a proverbial heartbeat. From my memory of how Silver sounds, and comparing it to what Edirol's stuff sounds like, it should make a good marriage. My only quibble is that there is no sustained viola patch in Silver. Oh well...

One advantage that Edirol users, and to a lesser extent Advanced Orchestra users, have is that both libraries take some work to make something sound really believable. The knowledge gleaned from that work can definitely be applied to Silver &/or GPO.

All the examples posted here sounded wonderful. All I can say is just keep writing & keep listening!
O.

MalteRathke
06-07-2004, 03:07 AM
Hey,

you guys made some cool sounding stuff with Edirol (Scott: I listened to yours on MP3.COM.AU a while ago, til now I wasn't really aware that it was Edirol you used).

Did you extensively tweaked Edirols patches or is it mostly out of the box?

Malte

Scott Buckley
06-07-2004, 05:12 AM
Did you extensively tweaked Edirols patches or is it mostly out of the box?

Malte

Out of the box :) Although sometimes its good to tweak sounds if yur not happy...I found that I was pretty happy with all the patches I ended up using.

-s

bouche
06-07-2004, 09:16 AM
[QUOTE=Edward]I have more recently switched to VSL Pro Edition but I find myself still using this as sort of a music notepad to get basic ideas down.

so Edward are those tracks the Edirol or VSL or both? If so it sounds spectacular! really cleverly orchestrated

hey again Scott!
As for buying EWQL silver, thanks for the advice, i think i will now!
The GPO demos I've heard sound ok for classical chamber music, but anything bigger they sound rather pathetic! also sounds too much like hard work! I wonder if Silver will run on my PC (1Gb RAM) along side the edirol...??

with the Edirol I find the key is finding and using the good patches (tweak some of them if needed) and add some good reverb and lots of expression controllers.

greatzed
06-07-2004, 12:14 PM
I've got the Edirol Orchestra as well and there are some great samples in there. The French Horn and cello sections are very nice, and (as mentioned in the first post) the slow violins section is beautiful. There are many duds in this library, however, namely the trumpets (awful!) and woodwinds.

I don't know if I'd pick this over GPO or EWQL, both sound better than Edirol in my opinion, and they both have more options.

Alan Lastufka
06-07-2004, 03:18 PM
...IMHO, GPO demands a thorough background in orchestration.
Actually, I think its the exact opposite... I have no orchestration background and am able to do convincing mock-ups, IMHO.

In fact, MANY of the 100 plus USER demos are from people with little to no formal orchestration background.

This is what makes being a musician today so INCREDIBLE are the easy to use, yet powerful tools available to us.

Edward
06-08-2004, 04:55 PM
[QUOTE=Edward]I have more recently switched to VSL Pro Edition but I find myself still using this as sort of a music notepad to get basic ideas down.

so Edward are those tracks the Edirol or VSL or both? If so it sounds spectacular! really cleverly orchestrated



Those demos were all from the Edirol VST. No VSL...I'm still trying to learn the VSL package I bought...so many options.

Thank you for the compliments.

kitekrazy
06-22-2004, 10:53 PM
Nice work Scott. :)

IReason 2 (which can actually produce some very nice orchestral renderings)
Rodney

I was surprised about that too when I heard a orchestral piece produced in Reason. Plus Reason just looks cool to have open on your desktop.

Xtatic
06-27-2004, 06:39 PM
Hey, I heard Concerning Hobbits of you. It was quite nice. I my self use Edirol HQ orchestra as well. And I agree that the string section is the best in it, and that i cant stand some of the horns. Still, i'm very new at orchestral too, and im hundrer percent new at northernsound (this is my first post?

You can check out my first orchestral tune too. hehe.

http://www.pixelwhippedstudios.com/djoratemp/html/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=12

Scott Buckley
06-28-2004, 07:40 PM
Well, welcome to the forums Xtatic! And Im glad to see another Edirol user.

The brass need alot of work before they sound reasonable, but if you sift through the samples and just play with them (playing around with slow passages and fast passages etc), you can start to understand how you can use them better in your pieces.

Heres a quick list of a few brass samples I like to use:

- Trumpet 2 for solo trumpets (although these days I use a free .gig i got off the net, which sounds just a bit crisper)

-Trumpet section 1 is fine, but only use it when filling out a sound, which is fairly full already. It just sounds crap closer to solo.

- Mute French Horn Solo....when you use it right, it has a very mellow and sombre sound to it. Very nice.

- Bs Trombone/Tuba Section - The low end of the bass trombone in this one is just golden for those crescendo blasts, and sound pretty good when mixed with a french horn section crescendo as well (note that you have to use a volume envelope with this package). But the problem is the low end of the trombone only has about 5 notes tops which are usable for that purpose. But they have almost an indefinate pitch, so you can blurt those notes out whenever.

- French Horns Accent - Good for those action sequences when you want nice sharp accents here and there. Good, crisp timbre.

Thats all I can think of off the top of my head...there are a few others, but Im away from my puter at the moment...But play around with these if you are a little lost for what to do with brass sounds. Otherwise, if yur still unhappy, Id look at something to supplement the Edirol, like I am. But I just cant afford it yet....

-s

Xtatic
07-02-2004, 08:00 PM
Yeah, i have no money either so heh. Ive tried out a few free gigs as well. And when im rich, heheheh :)

And thanks a bunch for those tips, im sure gonna try it out! If you could give me some tips on the string sections as well, i would be truly blessed :D

thanks.

Jaibulu
07-02-2004, 08:55 PM
Edward, may the force be with you with your new VSL Library.

Edward
07-02-2004, 10:24 PM
Hehe...I could use some Jedi powers to master VSL.

kitekrazy
07-03-2004, 11:03 AM
Well, welcome to the forums Xtatic! And Im glad to see another Edirol user.


- Trumpet 2 for solo trumpets (although these days I use a free .gig i got off the net, which sounds just a bit crisper)

--s

Which one was that? The Westwood Studios?

Scott Buckley
07-08-2004, 06:27 PM
Which one was that? The Westwood Studios?

Sure is! I reckon everyone has those ones :). I forget the URL for anyone wanting to have a look at them. Anyone else know?

-s

Mandarin Man
08-08-2004, 12:10 PM
Scott, I listened to your Concerning Hobbits track and the fast strings sound great! I also own Edirol Orchestral (although I don't have it installed at the moment due to reorganizing my setup and switching to XP). What sound did you use for the strings? Also, the string lines are played very realistic and with a lot of expression. Did you achieve this playing in the parts on your keyboard (synthesized sounds can offer advantage there over samples where you would need to switch between different articulations) or did you do a lot of note-to-note tweaking in the key editor afterwards? If so, any tips on how to achieve the sound you got?

Scott Buckley
08-30-2004, 09:12 PM
Ooh....sorry for not replying to this for a while....been a bit busy to check forums lately :)

Concerning hobbits....The strings I used for the most part are 'FullStrings Spiccato'...and I achieved all the expression by playing it all with my keyboard, with a sustain pedal. On its own, the patch is short with a strong attack, but when played with the pedal, it kinda smooshes the notes together a bit, making them sound a bit more legato than usual.

No tweaking involved....or post production...its just 'straight out of the box' sounds.

Jimi
01-31-2005, 03:20 PM
The "fullstrings spiccato" patch is none other than the patch from Peter S's "The Orchestra" sample library from days old. Roland also licensed it for use in their old orchestral libraries, which are (very sadly) no longer available. That patch sure has been around the block a few times! However, the bowing is not a "spiccato" at all, despite it's name.


Ooh....sorry for not replying to this for a while....been a bit busy to check forums lately :)

Concerning hobbits....The strings I used for the most part are 'FullStrings Spiccato'...and I achieved all the expression by playing it all with my keyboard, with a sustain pedal. On its own, the patch is short with a strong attack, but when played with the pedal, it kinda smooshes the notes together a bit, making them sound a bit more legato than usual.

No tweaking involved....or post production...its just 'straight out of the box' sounds.

jc5
01-31-2005, 07:42 PM
People were a little too hard on this set when it came out. I always felt it had more to offer (and better sound quality than some more expensive things too) than it was given credit for. Some impressive demos have been posted up here that prove it can still be used even in todays sampling environment. I think it really can compete with things like GPO and EQSL Silver. In the old days, Roland was always the top of the heap for orchestral sounds. I wonder if they will ever enter the fray with more modern stuff?

epexegenesis
02-01-2005, 12:05 AM
i like the edirol library. The sounds are quite incredible given the size of library, which i think is its main strength. I can even run it on my old computers with <128mb ram.

I find that the piano in it can produce a really nice sound. And, like the rest of you, i find the strings to be the best part.

Lunatique
02-01-2005, 10:39 AM
Just wanted to chime in about Ediro HQO. I think it's really nice too--although the articulations are a bit limited. I think most people gave it a harsh kick because it was so expensive compared to GPO and EWQLO Silver, and lacked many things those had. If it had been priced accordingly, people probably would've been kinder.