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View Full Version : OT: Eridol SuperQuartet and Orchestral



Jake Johnson
11-20-2002, 02:10 AM
Anyone played with these? The demo mp3s sound pretty damn good. (Hate to say this, but listen to them using the Window\'s Player with the WOW effect set at about 1/2 full strength. Really brings out the instruments without hyping them too much.)

Demos at: http://www.edirol.com/products/software.html (\"http://www.edirol.com/products/software.html\")

As I understand it, Eirdol is a software unit of Roland. Seems impressive: both load as VSTIs. The guitars and pianos sound good in the SuperQuartet. Nice for upbeat jazz: a clean sound with no interpolation problems. (How\'s that for a bad name for a product, though?)Sells for about $180.00.

The Orchestral lets you shift the position of instruments by dragging in a (small) mock up of a sound stage). Has both solo instruments and sections. No toy. (Don\'t think the piano is as good as the ones in SuperQuartet, though,judging from the very limited exposure the only piano in the Orchestral gets in the mp3s.) Orchestral is a bit more--$500-$600, I think. Very nice sounds. Not Giga, true--I\'m not sure how the instruments in Orchestral would sound solo. (None of the mp3s let us hear solos of any length. Still, this is a nice sound. (Turn up that WOW effect, children.)

csduke
11-20-2002, 09:30 AM
Interesting. I hear some very nice sounds going on here in the HQ-OR demos. Weak in some areas but very impressive for the price and possible out-of-the-box-ability. Might be nice in combination with GSt.


Jake Wrote: Orchestral is a bit more--$500-$600, I think. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Jake, I see the HQ-OR ORCHESTRAL SYNTH priced as low as $298 on the web.

I really like the \"First Intersection\" composition. Some Claus Ogermann sounds in there.

They claim:
o Up to 16-part and 128-voice polyphony
o Up to 24-bit/96kHz sampling resolution
o DXi 2.0 and VST 2.0 plug-in
o High-speed response and processing optimized using Intel’s SSE, AMD’s Enhanced 3D - Now! Technology, FSB 100MHz or higher, and Motorola’s AltiVec on PowerPC G4 native coding

Demo Download:
http://kellysmusic.mb.ca/productinfo.asp?id=-636289541&aff=none\\\\ (\"http://kellysmusic.mb.ca/productinfo.asp?id=-636289541&aff=none\\\\\")

http://www.edirol.com/products/info/images/hqor_main_lrg.jpg Check out the part editor.

Thanks for pointing this out Jake. Well, that was fun, now back to work!

Jake Johnson
11-20-2002, 11:09 AM
Oops--I misspelled the company\'s name: it\'s Eridol (spelled correctly in the link.)

Thanks for posting the screenshot. Just wanted to say that people looking at it should be sure to scroll to the right to see the entire interface, with the filter controls.

Assuming Orchestral is like SuperQuartet (there is an actual demo, not just MP3s, of SuperQuartet that can be downloaded), you can of course also edit the individual instruments: volume envelope, velocity response, effects, tuning, etc.

Do you mind if I ask where you found it for $289?

Jake Johnson
11-20-2002, 11:36 AM
Well, no: it\'s Edirol. (I need to stop staying up half the night listening to demos...)

csduke
11-21-2002, 12:16 AM
Originally posted by Jake Johnson:
Oops--Do you mind if I ask where you found it for $289?<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">No problem at all.

$299 (\"http://www.audiomidi.com/common/cfm/product.cfm?Product_ID=2782\")
$279 (\"http://www.youreq.com/musiceq/Software/edirol/HQ-Orchestral.asp\")
$289 (\"http://www.cdbm.com/shop/search.cgi?keyword=soundcanvas\")

Jake Johnson
11-22-2002, 04:09 PM
After writing Edirol, I learned the following:

You don\'t drag instruments around on the soundstage image in Edirol Orchestral. You instead select from a list that includes four different symphonic arrangements, several chamber arrangements, concertos, baroque, etc.,and string quartet. No automatic adjustment of reverb occurs--you must adjust reverb manually. Only the placement and selection of instruments is changed by selecting an item from the list. As I said before, this VSTI is not going to compete with the excellent Giga libraries. On the other hand, it seems like an interesting way to do quick mock-ups. Looks like this will go on my list of future purchases.

For anyone who\'s curious: Edirol sent me a list of all the patches in Orchestral:

Instrument Name Description

1 Violin Warm Section Warm violin section with strong vibrato.
2 Slow Violin Section Violin section with slow attack.
3 Violin Section Violin section with fast attack.
4 Violin Section /Vsw Violin section that switches to vibrato sound when played with strong velocity.
5 Violins Spiccato Violin section played spiccato.
6 Violins Pizzcato Violin section played pizzicato.
7 Tremolo Violins Violin section played with tremolo.
8 Viola Warm Section Warm viola section with strong vibrato.
9 Slow Viola Section Viola section with slow attack.
10 Viola Section Viola section with fast attack.
11 Viola Section /Vsw Viola section that switches to vibrato sound when played with strong velocity.
12 Violas Spiccato Viola section played spiccato.
13 Violas Pizzcato Viola section played pizzicato.
14 Tremolo Violas Viola section played with tremolo.
15 Cello Warm Section Warm cello section with strong vibrato.
16 Cello Section Cello section with fast attack.
17 Cello Section /Vsw Cello section that switches to vibrato sound when played with strong velocity.
18 Cellos Spiccato Cello section played spiccato.
19 Cellos Pizzcato Cello section played pizzicato.
20 Tremolo Cellos Cello section played with tremolo.
21 ContraBass Section Contrabass section.
22 ContraBassesSpiccato Contrabass section played spiccato.
23 ContraBassesPizzcato Contrabass section played pizzicato.
24 Tremolo ContraBasses Contrabass section played with tremolo.
25 ContraBass&C.Basson Layered sounds of a contrabass section and contra-bassoon (contra-fagott).
26 ContraBasses/Cellos Split sounds of a contrabass section and cello section.Contrabass section up to B3, and cello section from C4 upward.
27 Cbs/Vcs Spiccato Split sounds of a spiccato contrabass section and cello section.Contrabass section up to B3, and cello section from C4 upward.
28 Cbs/Vcs Pizzcato Split sounds of a tremolo contrabass section and cello section.Contrabass section up to B3, and cello section from C4 upward.
29 Cbs/Vcs Tremolo Split sounds of a pizzicato contrabass section and cello section.Contrabass section up to B3, and cello section from C4.
30 Slow Strings String section with slow attack. Usable in a broad range from low to high registers.
31 Full Strings String section. Usable in a broad range from low to high registers.
32 FullStrings Tremolo String section played with tremolo. Usable in a broad range from low to high registers.
33 FullStrings Spiccato String section played spiccato. Usable in a broad range from low to high registers.
34 FullStrings Pizzcato String section played pizzicato. Usable in a broad range from low to high registers.
Solo Strings (Bank MSB:0/LSB:1)
PC Instrument Name Description
1 Violin Vibrato Violin played with vibrato.
2 Violin Violin played without vibrato.
3 Violin /Msw Violin that uses modulation (Control Change #1) to switch between sounds with and without vibrato.
4 Violin /Vsw Violin that switches to vibrato sound when played with strong velocity.
5 Violin Spiccato Violin played spiccato.
6 Violin Pizzcato Violin played pizzicato. Strong velocities play Bartok pizzicato (string plucked strongly, so it snaps against the fingerboard).
7 Violin Harmonics Violin played using harmonics.
8 Viola Vibrato Viola played with vibrato.
9 Viola Viola played without vibrato.
10 Viola /Msw Viola that uses modulation (Control Change #1) to switch between sounds with and without vibrato.
11 Viola /Vsw Viola that switches to vibrato sound when played with strong velocity.
12 Viola Spiccato Viola played spiccato.
13 Viola Pizzcato Viola played pizzicato. Strong velocities play Bartok pizzicato (string plucked strongly, so it snaps against the fingerboard).
14 Viola Harmonics Viola played using harmonics.
15 Cello Vibrato Cello played with vibrato.
16 Cello Cello played without vibrato.
17 Cello /Msw Cello that uses modulation (Control Change #1) to switch between sounds with and without vibrato.
18 Cello /Vsw Cello that switches to vibrato sound when played with strong velocity.
19 Cello Spiccato Cello played spiccato.
20 Cello Pizzcato Cello played pizzicato.
21 Cello Harmonics Cello played using harmonics.
22 ContraBass Vibrato Contrabass with vibrato.
23 ContraBass Contrabass without vibrato.
24 ContraBass /Msw Contrabass that uses modulation (Control Change #1) to switch between sounds with and without vibrato.
25 ContraBass /Vsw Contrabass that switches to vibrato sound when played with strong velocity.
26 ContraBass Spiccato Contrabass played spiccato.
27 ContraBass Pizzcato Contrabass played pizzicato. Strong velocities play Bartok pizzicato (string plucked strongly, so it snaps against the fingerboard).
28 ContraBass Harmonics Contrabass played using harmonics.
29 Harp 1 Harp with clearly-defined sound.
30 Harp 2 Harp with mellow sound.
Brass Sections (Bank MSB:0/LSB:2)
PC Instrument Name Description
1 Trumpet Section1 Trumpet section.
2 Trumpet Section2 Trumpet section with distinctive attack.
3 Trumpet Section3 Trumpet section with mellow sound.
4 Trumpets Staccato Trumpet section playing staccato.
5 Trombone Section1 Trombone section.
6 Trombone Section2 Trombone section with mellow sound.
7 Trombone Section3 Trombone section with slow attack.
8 Trombones Staccato Trombone section playing staccato.
9 Trombones Slide Trombone section playing slides.
10 Bass Trombone&Tuba Layered sounds of a bass trombone and tuba.
11 Bs.Trombone/TB Sect. Split sounds of a bass trombone and trombone sectionBass trombone up to Eb4, and trombone section from E4 upward.
12 Tuba/Tbs Staccato Split sounds of a staccato tuba and trombone.Tuba up to Eb4, and trombone section from E4 upward.
13 French Horn Section Horn section.
14 French Horns Accent Horn section with accent on the attack.
15 French Horns Atack Staccato horn section.
16 French Horns Fat Horn section blowing fortissimo for \"ragged\" sound.
17 French Horns Mute Muted horn section.
18 French Horns Swell Horn section playing slurs.
19 French Horns Rip Horn section playing lip slurs.
20 Orchestral Ensemble Brass section combining multiple brass instruments. Usable in a broad range from low to high registers.
Solo Brasses (Bank MSB:0/LSB:3)
PC Instrument Name Description
1 Classical Trumpet Mellow trumpet.
2 Trumpet 1 Trumpet with distinctive attack when played strongly.
3 Trumpet 2 Warm-sounding trumpet with straightforward attack.
4 Trumpet Mute Muted trumpet.
5 Piccolo Trumpet Piccolo trumpet. Plays at a higher pitch than a conventional trumpet.
6 Cornet Cornet.
7 Trombone Trombone.
8 Trombone Mute Muted trombone.
9 Alto Trombone Alto trombone. Plays at a higher pitch than a conventional trombone.
10 Bass Trombone Bass trombone. Plays approximately one octave lower than a conventional trombone.
11 Tuba Tuba.
12 Tuba Staccato Tuba played staccato.
13 French Horn Horn.
14 French Horn Stop Stopped horn (hand-muted).
15 French Horn Mute Muted horn.
16 Flugelhorn Flugelhorn.
17 Euphonium Euphonium.
Woodwinds (Bank MSB:0/LSB:4)
PC Instrument Name Description
1 Piccolo Vibrato Piccolo played with vibrato.
2 Piccolo Flute 1 Piccolo played without vibrato.
3 Piccolo Flute 2 Piccolo with distinctive attack, played without vibrato.
4 Flute Vibrato Flute played with vibrato.
5 Flute Vibrato2 Flute with strong breath noise, played with vibrato.
6 Flute Flute played without vibrato.
7 Flute /Msw Flute that uses modulation (Control Change #1) to switch between sounds with and without vibrato.
8 Flute&Piccolo Layered sounds of a flute and piccolo.
9 Flute&PiccoloVibrato Layered sounds of a flute and piccolo, played with vibrato.
10 Alto Flute Vibrato Alto flute played with vibrato. Plays at a lower pitch than a conventional flute.
11 Alto Flute Alto flute played without vibrato. Plays at a lower pitch than a conventional flute.
12 Alto Flute /Msw Alto flute that uses modulation (Control Change #1) to switch between sounds with and without vibrato.
13 Bass Flute Vibrato Bass flute played with vibrato. Plays one octave lower than a conventional flute.
14 Bass Flute Bass flute played without vibrato. Plays one octave lower than a conventional flute.
15 Bass Flute /Msw Bass flute that uses modulation (Control Change #1) to switch between sounds with and without vibrato.
16 Clarinet 1 Clarinet.
17 Clarinet 2 Clarinet with distinctive attack.
18 Bass Clarinet Bass clarinet. Plays one octave lower than a conventional clarinet.
19 Oboe Vibrato Oboe played with vibrato.
20 Oboe 1 Oboe played without vibrato.
21 Oboe 2 Warm-sounding oboe played without vibrato.
22 Oboe /Msw Oboe that uses modulation (Control Change #1) to switch between sounds with and without vibrato.
23 English Horn Vibrato English horn (cor anglais) played with vibrato.
24 English Horn 1 English horn (cor anglais) with a rounded tone.
25 English Horn 2 English horn (cor anglais) with a clearly-defined tone.
26 ContraBasson Contra-bassoon (contra-fagott). Plays one octave lower than a conventional bassoon.
27 Bassoon Bassoon (fagott).
28 Alto Sax Alto sax.
Keyboard & Percussion (Bank MSB:0/LSB:5)
PC Instrument Name Description
1 Concert Piano Concert grand piano.
2 Harpsichord Harpsichord.
3 Celesta Celesta.
4 Marimba Marimba.
5 Bass Marimba Bass marimba. Plays approximately two octaves below a conventional marimba.
6 Xylophone Xylophone.
7 Glocken 1 Bright-sounding glockenspiel.
8 Glocken 2 Mellow-sounding glockenspiel with short reverberation.
9 Tubular-bell Bright-sounding bells with hard attack.
10 Tubular-bell2 Bells with a rounded tone.
11 Timpani Timpani.
12 Timpani Roll Timpani rolls.
13 Timpani/Timpani Roll Split sounds of a timpani and timpani rolls.Timpani up to B3, and timpani rolls from C4 upward.
Rhythm Set (Bank MSB:0/LSB:6)
PC Instrument Name Description
1 Orchestra Kit Rhythm set suitable for orchestral music.
2 Marching Kit Rhythm set suitable for a marching band.
3 Timpani Kit Rhythm set that includes timpani and timpani rolls.
Percussion instrument list for each rhythm set
*1: These sounds support advanced muting. For details on advanced muting, refer to \"Advanced muting in a rhythm set.\"
Note# 1 : Orchestra Kit 2 : Marching Kit 3 : Timpani Kit
G#1[32] Orch BD 1*1
A 1[33] Orch MuteBD1
Bb1[34] BsDrum Roll Cons.BD Roll
B 1[35] Orch BD 2*1 Marching BD1
C 2[36] Orch MuteBD2 Marching BD2
C#2[37] Snareless March SnrRim
D 2[38] Ambient Snr1 March Snare Timpani D
Eb2[39] SnareRoll1 Snare Less Timpani D#
E 2[40] Ambient Snr2 March Snare Timpani E
F 2[41] SnareRoll2 March Tom 4 Timpani F
F#2[42] SnareRoll3 SnareRoll1 Timpani F#
G 2[43] SnrRolloff March Tom 3 Timpani G
G#2[44] Orch Snare1 March Tenor Timpani G#
A 2[45] Orch Snare2 March Tom 2 Timpani A
Bb2[46] Orch Snare1 March Tenor Timpani A#
B 2[47] Orch Snare2 March Tom 1 Timpani B
C 3[48] Orch_Crush*1 Orch_Crush*1 Timpani C
C#3[49] MltCym.Swell*1 MltCym.Swell*1 Timpani C#
D 3[50] Cymbal Swell Cymbal Swell Timpani D
Eb3[51] PiattiCymbal*1 PiattiCymbal*1 Timpani D#
E 3[52] Dragon Mlt*1 Orch_Crush*1 Timpani E
F 3[53] Grongkas1*1 PiattiCymbal*1 Timpani F
F#3[54] Grongkas2*1 Triangle 1 Timpani F#
G 3[55] Lrg_Gong*1 Castanet Timpani G
G#3[56] Tam-tam*1 OrchToys1 Timpani G#
A 3[57] Triangle 1 BellLylas A Timpani A
Bb3[58] Mt.Triangle1 BellLylas A#
B 3[59] Tri_trem 1 BellLylas B
C 4[60] Tri_Roll 1 BellLylas C
C#4[61] Triangle 2 BellLylas C#
D 4[62] Mt.Triangle2 BellLylas D TimpaniRl D
Eb4[63] Tri_trem 2 BellLylas D# TimpaniRl D#
E 4[64] Tri_Roll 2 BellLylas E TimpaniRl E
F 4[65] BellTree1 BellLylas F TimpaniRl F
F#4[66] BellTree2 BellLylas F# TimpaniRl F#
G 4[67] MarkTree1 BellLylas G TimpaniRl G
G#4[68] MarkTree2 BellLylas G# TimpaniRl G#
A 4[69] W.ChimeDown1 BellLylas A TimpaniRl A
Bb4[70] W.ChimeDown2 BellLylas A# TimpaniRl A#
B 4[71] W.Chime Up 1 BellLylas B TimpaniRl B
C 5[72] W.Chime Up 2 BellLylas C TimpaniRl C
C#5[73] Sleighbell BellLylas C# TimpaniRl C#
D 5[74] XmasBell1 BellLylas D TimpaniRl D
Eb5[75] XmasBell2 BellLylas D# TimpaniRl D#
E 5[76] Castanet BellLylas E TimpaniRl E
F 5[77] Claves BellLylas F TimpaniRl F
F#5[78] Wood BlockHi BellLylas F# TimpaniRl F#
G 5[79] Wood BlockLo BellLylas G TimpaniRl G
G#5[80] OrchToys1 BellLylas G# TimpaniRl G#
A 5[81] OrchToys2 BellLylas A TimpaniRl A
Bb5[82] HiCluster HiCluster
B 5[83] LowCluster LowCluster
C 6[84] ShrtCluster ShrtCluster
C#6[85] RipDown RipDown
D 6[86] RipUp RipUp
Eb6[87] Harp Maj Up
E 6[88] Harp Maj Dn

Z6
11-22-2002, 05:46 PM
Thanks Jake and Craig for the info and links. I checked out the price: $275!

This isn\'t VSL but it sounds like astonishing value. The demos have a lot of life (and way less \'cheesy\' than I expected).

I\'d be interested to hear if anyone has used this. Very interesting, and perfect for beginners and cheapskates (I qualify on both counts).

apessino
11-22-2002, 09:27 PM
I have used the Edirol Orchestral VSTi for a couple of months now, and for quick mockups (or for playback of notated scores in Sibelius) it is BY FAR the best tool I have ever used. No, it cannot be compared to the monster libraries of late (not even close), but the patches are very versatile, they sound good and blend remarkably well together. Much better than even the best sound modules I\'ve used for \"basic\" orchestral playback, IMHO.

For sketching I use three instances at once in Cubase SX, the whole thing driven from Sibelius on the same computer (2.2Ghz P4, Hammerfall DSP, UAD-1, etc.) using MIDIOverLAN to pipe three virtual MIDI devices. Not a glitch in sight so far.. images/icons/smile.gif

I should have a big piece done in a week or so (and by big I mean full symphonic orchestra 3-3-3-3 4-3-3-1 Timp+4Perc Harp Strings, over 10 min. long, with extended section of \"tutti\" playing as well as many moments of solo instruments). I was planning on making a quick recording of the piece, and then also record each section (winds, brass, perc, strings) individually. It might work decently as a demo of simple use of the Orchestral VSTi..

\'Til then..

-A

--------
Andrea G. Pessino (not female, just Italian)
Blizzard Entertainment

apessino@blizzard.com

Jake Johnson
11-22-2002, 09:47 PM
Andrea--

Edirol says that the strings have up bow and down bow sounds triggered by velocity. Does this work well? (Can you control it with predictable results?)

Look forward to your posting a link to your composition.

apessino
11-22-2002, 10:17 PM
Hello Jake,

>>
Edirol says that the strings have up bow and down bow sounds triggered by velocity
<<

They do?!?? Well, if they do, I\'ve never noticed.. images/icons/wink.gif

Seriously, I just tried a bunch of sounds, and nothing like that is going on. The only velocity switching that\'s happening, AFAIK, is for up to four sample layers, and then for what they call \"advanced vibrato\" (sic!) and \"advanced mute.\" Basically, you can crossfade a vibrato sample (or a short release sample for muted percussion) by velocity or with the modwheel. Only a few programs support that..

I know that there is an upgrade in beta at the moment, maybe they added the up/down bows there?

The strings do sound decent but they barely cut it for sketching. I forgot to mention that\'s the one orchestral choir I often DO NOT use the VSTi for.. I rather use the SRX-04 board (Symphonic Strings) in my 5080. For everything else, including harp and percussion, the VSTi is quite sufficient.

Cheers!

A-

Jake Johnson
11-25-2002, 06:57 PM
I wrote to Edirol about the up-bow or no up-bow issue and received this response:

Those are the VSW (Velocity Switch)patches he\'s talking about. They allow you to switch from a straight tone to a vibrato tone by striking the note harder.
Listen to this MP3 from about half way through to the end. You can hear a bowing action, even if it\'s reverse of how it should be.
http://www.edirol.com/products/info/demo/hqor/04Shape.mp3 (\"http://www.edirol.com/products/info/demo/hqor/04Shape.mp3\")
Kindly,
Chris Douglass

Product Manager-Audio
360.594.4273x213
360.594.4271
http://www.edirol.com (\"http://www.edirol.com\")

So it seems to be possible, but we don\'t know how to achieve it yet.

I\'ve been listening to the pianos in the SuperQuartet demo download recently, and like them more and more. Hard to find, at first. You click and hold on the name of the instrument, and a dropdown list appears, from which you can choose from piano presets, guitar presets, etc. About 15 different keyboards, five or six of them pianos. Playing with the filters and the \"Character\" knob, which sounds as though it may control a lowpass filter, you can get some interesting pianos. Not a replacement for giga instuments, but they sound good. I\'ve just been loading a midi file and playing it using the various pianos, and each brings something to the table, although almost all require that you extend the decay, the release, and add a little reverb. They\'re good Roland piano sounds. (Don\'t turn up the volume knob too far the first time you listen to one of these pianos--the demo has a loudish beep that comes on every 20 seconds or so.)

David Abraham
11-26-2002, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by Jake Johnson:
although almost all require that you extend the decay, the release, and add a little reverb. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">yep, exactly what I found as well, after you do this they sound pretty good. Also Plugsound just announced a Keyboard VSTi,which will include pianos that they seem pretty proud of:

http://www.harmony-central.com/Newp/2002/Plugsound-Vol-1-Keys.html (\"http://www.harmony-central.com/Newp/2002/Plugsound-Vol-1-Keys.html\")

-david abraham

Earl Macey
11-26-2002, 02:53 AM
Originally posted by apessino:
I have used the Edirol Orchestral VSTi for a couple of months now, and for quick mockups (or for playback of notated scores in Sibelius) it is BY FAR the best tool I have ever used. No, it cannot be compared to the monster libraries of late (not even close), but the patches are very versatile, they sound good and blend remarkably well together. Much better than even the best sound modules I\'ve used for \"basic\" orchestral playback, IMHO.

For sketching I use three instances at once in Cubase SX, the whole thing driven from Sibelius on the same computer (2.2Ghz P4, Hammerfall DSP, UAD-1, etc.) using MIDIOverLAN to pipe three virtual MIDI devices. Not a glitch in sight so far.. images/icons/smile.gif

I should have a big piece done in a week or so (and by big I mean full symphonic orchestra 3-3-3-3 4-3-3-1 Timp+4Perc Harp Strings, over 10 min. long, with extended section of \"tutti\" playing as well as many moments of solo instruments). I was planning on making a quick recording of the piece, and then also record each section (winds, brass, perc, strings) individually. It might work decently as a demo of simple use of the Orchestral VSTi..

\'Til then..

-A

--------
Andrea G. Pessino (not female, just Italian)
Blizzard Entertainment

apessino@blizzard.com<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">

Earl Macey
11-26-2002, 02:54 AM
Originally posted by apessino:
I have used the Edirol Orchestral VSTi for a couple of months now, and for quick mockups (or for playback of notated scores in Sibelius) it is BY FAR the best tool I have ever used. No, it cannot be compared to the monster libraries of late (not even close), but the patches are very versatile, they sound good and blend remarkably well together. Much better than even the best sound modules I\'ve used for \"basic\" orchestral playback, IMHO.
How do you get it to work with Sib. ? Sib is not vst or dxi....Earl
For sketching I use three instances at once in Cubase SX, the whole thing driven from Sibelius on the same computer (2.2Ghz P4, Hammerfall DSP, UAD-1, etc.) using MIDIOverLAN to pipe three virtual MIDI devices. Not a glitch in sight so far.. images/icons/smile.gif

I should have a big piece done in a week or so (and by big I mean full symphonic orchestra 3-3-3-3 4-3-3-1 Timp+4Perc Harp Strings, over 10 min. long, with extended section of \"tutti\" playing as well as many moments of solo instruments). I was planning on making a quick recording of the piece, and then also record each section (winds, brass, perc, strings) individually. It might work decently as a demo of simple use of the Orchestral VSTi..

\'Til then..

-A

--------
Andrea G. Pessino (not female, just Italian)
Blizzard Entertainment

apessino@blizzard.com<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">

Earl Macey
11-26-2002, 08:07 PM
How did you get this to work with Sib? It\'s supposed to work only with Vast or Dxi?

mschiff
11-27-2002, 01:32 PM
Would there be a way to use the Edirol Orchestral on a laptop as a stand alone (by using another program if necessary) sound source? I\'m thinking of using it with Encore to output the midi on a laptop and use Edirol Orchestral as a sound source for an orchestra mockup. Laptop is a 2 Ghz machine with 1 gig of ram.

-- Martin

apessino
11-27-2002, 02:44 PM
Earl:

I use a \"virtual MIDI device\" driver called MIDIOverLAN+ (you can check it out at http://www.musiclab.com/) (\"http://www.musiclab.com/)\") to create some local MIDI devices. There are other (free) programs to achieve the same goal (MIDIYoke, for example..) but I find MIDIOverLAN+ to be much superior, and at $35 or so it is quite worth its price. It has worked flawlessly for me under Windows XP.

Once the local MIDI devices are in place, I run CubaseSX and instantiate the Edirol Orchestral VSTi three times. Cubase automatically creates MIDI tracks to drive each instance of the plugin, and I set the MIDI input for each track to a corresponding \"virtual MIDI in.\" Cubase also automatically creates audio tracks to receive the audio output of the VSTi. By having three instances, one dedicated to each of Winds, Brass, Percussion+Harp+Keyboards, I can send each section to different effects/EQ/etc.

Finally, with Cubase open in the background and the VSTi MIDI tracks with their \"monitoring\" turned on, I fire up Sibelius and setup my score to use the available \"virtual MIDI outs\" as needed. That\'s it.. all that\'s left to do is write the music and, upon pressing the magical P key, Sibelius will be piping MIDI to the virtual MIDI devices, which will be routed to the MIDI tracks in CubaseSX, which will trigger the Edirol VSTi (or any other VSTi, of course..), which will generate audio and send it to the Cubase audio tracks, and so on.. images/icons/wink.gif

Martin (and Earl):

I find CubaseSX and Nuendo to be the ideal tools to host virtual instruments such as the Edirol VSTi, especially because they are the only sequencers out there which let you setup each track to have its own MIDI input device from a list of all available devices (well.. Logic can do this too, but in its own bizarrely convoluted way.. images/icons/wink.gif personally, I can\'t stand it). Sonar and several other programs only let you set a single \"MIDI input device\" and only set which channel to listen to on a track by track basis, which makes hosting of VSTi all but impossible.

If a full blown sequencer like Cubase seems like too much just to drive a few virtual instruments, Steinberg has a great new tool available, check this out:

http://www.steinberg.net/en/ps/products/music_production/v-stack/index.php?sid=0 (\"http://www.steinberg.net/en/ps/products/music_production/v-stack/index.php?sid=0\")

V-STACK has everything you need to do what I described above, and with its support of System Link it can also be used to expand a virtual studio to an additional computer without requiring the purchase of another full-blown sequencing application! It\'s really cool..

I hope this helps..

A-

--------
Andrea G. Pessino (not female, just Italian)
Blizzard Entertainment

apessino@blizzard.com

mschiff
11-27-2002, 04:51 PM
Andrea,

Thanks for the great information. V-Stack sounds like a perfect solution.

-- Martin

Earl Macey
11-29-2002, 02:17 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by apessino:
[QB]Earl:

Thank you very much for a detailed explanation.. images/icons/smile.gif Earl

Jake Johnson
11-29-2002, 11:36 PM
After buying the Edirol SuperQuartet, I thought I might give a brief review of the pianos:

By no means any where close to a replacement for any piano developed for Giga, since they are all looped, and looped a little too early. For upbeat music, they\'re excellent. However, since the samples seem to be brief, so memory could be preserved and latency problems reduced, if you hold a bass note for more than about 3 seconds, or the press sustain pedal on bass notes for more than that same time, even after adjusting the decay and sustain portions of the envelope, the mechanical drone of the loop sets in. Sounds a little like a continued reverberation of strings. Sounds more like the sustain of a loop.
I\'m not trying to say these are bad sample sets. The samples themselves are great; as I\'ve said in an earlier post, they\'re good Roland pianos. The notes are full and forceful: you can feel the blow of the hammr on the string without a thonking sound. I really enjoy playing using these samples. (Far better than any soundfont, with the exception of the Akai Splendid Grand and the Maestro Malmso, and they sound very different from either--again, think of a very good Roland piano sound--much much better than the RD-100 or or RD-150.)The Mellow Piano and Soft piano are particularly good if you take some care with the sustain pedal. (The rock pianos have a bit too much of a plucking sound in the attack. The default Steinway and other pianos sound much better to me when I use them to play back midi files than when I play them live.)

I don\'t notice the looping problem with the samples above middle C. In other words, these are almost excellent--they\'re great, in fact, for doing a midi draft of any song, and if you don\'t pedal for too long, or hold notes too long, you may not have to replace the sound with another piano. I\'m amazed, really--if Edirol had included bass samples that were about 3-5 seconds longer, this would a very serious set of samples, and for many purposes, they already are. Anyone else tried these pianos?

Jake Johnson
12-01-2002, 12:38 AM
Yes, I\'m running on too long OT about these pianos, but I still like their sound. Here\'s a demo mp3 from Edirol:

http://www.edirol.com/products/info/demo/hqqt/hqqt_01GrandPiano.mp3 (\"http://www.edirol.com/products/info/demo/hqqt/hqqt_01GrandPiano.mp3\")

(This is one of the out-of-the-box piano sounds.)

A revision of my review of the piano samples in the Edirol SuperQuartet:

It\'s possible to reduce the sound of the loop in the bass by setting the Decay part of the envelope (turning the knob) to a negative number. (In other words, the 0 --zero-- default setting for the Decay is not the sample without the loop, but instead the sample + one or two revolutions of the looped section.) Setting the Decay portion of the envelope at around negative 2 or 3 does reduce the length of each note\'s sound to the brief sample length of about 3 seconds, but it also entirely eliminates the buzzing loop sound, which means you can use the sustain pedal without any problems.

(And I\'m still playing with using the tremolo to let me use a bit of the loop, since a slowish tremelo makes the loop sound less like a constant buzz. Unfortunately, the tremolo of course applies to the entire note, but\'m getting closer to the sound I want. Anyone know of a VSTI effect that lets you add tremolo to only a certain portion of an envelope?)

I know--I should be a man, give up on short samples, and get all the good Giga piano libraries, but these VSTI\'s are so easy to use and edit. You can edit them realtime while playing back midi files, adjusting the timbre until you get the sound you want. Hard not to like.

Jake Johnson
02-03-2003, 04:26 PM
For what it\'s worth:

The latest issue of Future Music (one of the big glossy British mags that comes with a CD of samples and demos) has a two page review of Orchestral. They essentially like it, but take it to task for costing too much, since it only has 512 megs of samples.

No, no demo of Orchestral on the CD. Some good photos of the interface, though. The reviewer says it\'s Roland\'s best selling piece of software, and likes the interface and the way the instruments sit in a mix.

Hm...I wonder if anyone is thinking of doing something similar that would have a few gigs of samples--an entire orchestra that wouldn\'t be as good as the individual sets of strings, etc we\'re now seeing, but still good. For that matter, I wonder if we\'ll be seeing more of such instrument sets from Roland. A good set of Roland pianos, maybe? I wrote them a while back to ask if they\'d considered just a very good string quartet, and was told that they couldn\'t talk about what they were developing, but they were developing other similar modules.

Is anyone out there using Orchestral with interesting results for fast mockups? Can you post some mp3s?

Ash F
02-03-2003, 09:19 PM
I\'d just like to second the idea that HQ-Orchestral is good for quick mock-ups and rough layouts - that\'s what i use it for and it does the job perfectly images/icons/wink.gif good for working quickly when inspiration strikes and you don\'t want to fire up the Giga box.

Whilst i haven\'t run it on a laptop, it should be perfect for that too.

A_Sapp
02-03-2003, 09:52 PM
Where\'s a small cheap library that I has the full orchestral palette, but not designed for convincing mockups? I could use this for quick sketches and make a layout of how I would make the final convincing mockup.

David Abraham
02-04-2003, 11:48 AM
is anyone using the Orchestral Module in Cubase SX? If so if you change say instrument 1 to Concert Piano, save the project then re-open, will it still be set to piano? This doesn\'t work for me in SX but works ok in SONAR in DXi mode.

-david abraham