View Full Version : Demo: The Rite of Spring

02-15-2004, 10:56 AM
Call me a masochist, but here it is... images/icons/grin.gif

Le Sacre du Printemps (\"http://www.allhands.com/mp3/sacre.mp3\") (intro)

Tackling a piece like this is not for the faint of heart! I painstakingly edited thousands of events until it started to sound right.

I was going for as real an interpretation as I could get for this. There were quite a number of problems to overcome, including sounds and techniques that simply weren\'t available in GPO, but which I tried my best to fake. (ww flutter-tongue scales, natural glissando harmonics on strings, solo violin trill, and an utterly insane alto flute part that the GPO samples just didn\'t seem to like)

Let me know what you all think, especially if you have a good familiarity with the piece. I think this is pretty close to a typical sounding orchestral recording of Le Sacre, with the exception of a few smallish hairs that could be split.

- Jamie Kowalski

Hardy Heern
02-15-2004, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by Skysaw:
Call me a masochist, but here it is... images/icons/grin.gif

<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">You\'re a masochist.


PS Sorry I can\'t make comment about the music as I don\'t often listen to this genre.
Don\'t you have television in Virginia? images/icons/smile.gif

Jonny Lost
02-15-2004, 11:19 AM

Hi. This mock up of Le Scare du Printemps is amazing. The only thing to raise an eyebrow at in my opinion is the tempo. It may be a bit too fast, but that\'s just a matter of opinio. I still think you did a great job. Now, since your a masochist, how about the next section?!! :-)


02-15-2004, 11:43 AM
The tempi were taken directly from Stravinsky\'s score, and also match for the most part what I am used to. I know there is a lot of variation out there in existing recordings, so I\'m not surprized you might find it fast or slow.

Next section will come eventually, but I need to switch back to working on my own music for awhile. I can definitely see some problematic stuff coming up in the Dance of the Adolescents:

More fluttertongue
String harmonics (including High staccatto arpeggios for celli)
Col legno passages

It gets even worse later with things like:
Detache glissandos in solo and section violins
Sul ponticello
Stopped and \"bells high\" horn parts
The inclusion of a \"piccolo timpani\" that reaches middle C
Bass trumpet (with and without mute)
Muted tuba
And even a part where a solo cello retunes the C string to a B, in order to play an otherwise unproduceable natural harmonic.

It\'s all in fun, right? images/icons/frown.gif

02-15-2004, 02:44 PM
Really impressive!

Slight tempo and timing differences with my recording, but that\'s just down to interpretation. It sounds really good.

(Would be quite interesting to see the midi file for this images/icons/shocked.gif )

Well done indeed images/icons/cool.gif

ed buller
02-15-2004, 02:47 PM
Wowwww... Yup you are nut\'s. But I am very impressed. This is probally my all time fav bit of music. The tempo is fine except you rush the basson a little at the front. I can\'t believe you managed all those bass clarinet runs!@#$%^&*( all this from a $250 piece of software . (and your considerable talent\'s) did you play it in by hand ?


ed buller
02-15-2004, 02:49 PM
Wowwww... Yup you are nut\'s. But I am very impressed. This is probally my all time fav bit of music. The tempo is fine except you rush the basson a little at the front. I can\'t believe you managed all those bass clarinet runs!@#$%^&*( all this from a $250 piece of software . (and your considerable talent\'s) did you play it in by hand ?


Ned Bouhalassa
02-15-2004, 03:10 PM
Amazing Jamie, I\'m so impressed! This should be on Gary\'s website, for sure! The thing I miss most, I guess, are the key clicks, especially at the beginning... You\'re an inspiration to all of us, to get cracking and make good music with GPO. Obviously, as you\'ve proven, solid programming chops and great writing (thanks Igor) will make any softsampler sound 10 times better. Not to knock GPO at all (I love it), but I\'d love to see what you could do with VSL Pro Edition, for eg... images/icons/shocked.gif images/icons/shocked.gif images/icons/shocked.gif images/icons/wink.gif

02-15-2004, 06:07 PM
Thanks for all the comments.

The bass clarinet runs were not too hard... they were actually much better behaved than some of the other instruments.

Ed, yes I did play almost all of the parts on my keyboard, though a few of the crazier parts were step recorded. Almost every note was shifted by hand, though, and all of the mod wheel and sustain pedal changes that were originally input with my controller were later all redrawn by hand in Sonar.

I\'ll post the midi file for those who are interested, though it will have to wait a couple of days. I\'m packing tonight and tomorrow, as I\'m moving in to my new house Tuesday! Don\'t worry... the studio is at the top of the unpack list! images/icons/wink.gif

02-15-2004, 08:23 PM
Wow! This must\'ve taken weeks. Am I right?


02-15-2004, 09:04 PM
VERY impressive!! Defintely should be up on Gary\'s site.

I like your tempi but then I am a conservative and believe in following the score exactly.

It\'s been a l o n g time since I looked at the score for le sacre, but I see too a myriad of orchestrational problems for GPO, like \'tenor\' tubas (hence my requests for Wagnerian orchestration support from GPO) more horn techniques supported, etc, etc!

But you\'ve really shown what can be accomplished with GPO as is, if one wants to put in the work (and what work! But I\'m a big Stravinsky buff).

02-15-2004, 09:35 PM
I really enjoyed this!

I think the overall ambience (the air) is bit too wet or the hall setting is too big. Some of the sounds smear a little.

But the Stravinsky is there. I can feel the pulse!!

Will you give us the Dance of the Adolescents next?

Great work!

Not Dudley Simpson
02-15-2004, 11:10 PM
Thank you Jamie. I enjoyed your interpretation very much.

I\'ve been listening to The Rite since I was a toddler, and I never tire of it or cease to learn from it. With all due respect to George Gershwin, Miles Davis, Duke Ellington et al, The Rite remains the finest jazz piece of all time. images/icons/grin.gif

It\'s great to hear new recordings of it, be they from the LSO or GPO! In fact I\'d love to hear more electronic versions of this piece. Tomita chickened out. images/icons/tongue.gif

You pulled off the woodwind programming well - the flutes at 2:31* are as sexy as Igor intended! Great. Love the reverb too.

Luck to you and have fun!

* Oops. 1:31 actually. My edit.

J. Whaley
02-15-2004, 11:47 PM
OH MY GOSH that\'s sick. I can\'t believe it! How long did it take you to do this? I think Jamie should get Garritan libraries for life for showing GPO in this light!

A few questions if you don\'t mind?

* How long did this take!
* Is the verb the stock kontakt verb or something else?
* Did you build all your sections with solo insts?

All I can say is wow. You did a great job. I wish I had GPO when I was in college and had more time to putz with orchestrations. I use to mock up all sorts of stuff with my JV1080 board but I never could get anything like this. Now I don\'t have time images/icons/frown.gif Oh well - thanks for sharing with us.


02-16-2004, 12:35 AM
The tempo is OK!!!

02-16-2004, 01:12 AM

This is stunning! What an ambitious undertaking and a remarable rendition. I certainly would like to post this on the GPO site.

Thanks for offering to send the MIDI file. A list of instrumentation would also be helpful - and at your convenience. We could make a corresponding GPO Studio file for those who want to play this peice from their notation program.

Thanks very much for posting this.

Good luck with moving into your new house.

Gary Garritan

PS: I may be able to send you some of the additional patches you need for the Dance of the Adolescents.

02-16-2004, 01:56 AM
Very, very nice. I have tried to do this several times in years past (Arp 2600 with 4-track Tasxcam 3340 was the first attempt, you can imagine the result!) I am glad I have ordered GPO, this really shows what it can do.

More, please...


02-16-2004, 04:29 AM
Absolutely amazing! I\'m thrilled!

Can you tell us a bit about the technical details (how many instances, etc...)?


02-16-2004, 02:26 PM
Excellent and commendable demo. Must have involved many hours/days of work I BET.

While this sounds really good, I must say that I still wouldn\'t compare it to, say for example, a Colin davis rendering that I have with the LSO orchestra (I listened to the two back to back). This is an amazingly complicated powerful piece of music and its not an easy job to decipher this with a virtual orchetra. I am amazed that you even attampted it and came this far. I would say (discounting minor issues that can be fixed) the present demo goes about 75% of the way towards realistic sounding. (thats a LOT by any other standards!)

The only big problem I have with this demo is the absuptness of the attacks. I was wondering is you could somehow improve the attacks (I found the steps very abrupt at times when it should be a legato). Also, use more fortissimo when needed. I just felt the lack of that dry and virile energy that is so characteristic of the Rite.

But overall it was a great pleasure to hear it!
look forward to the second movement ... lets see if you can get the staccato violin passages in te opening (hehehe)


02-16-2004, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by Raindog:
Excellent demo but how did this Strandinski guy compose the piece without GPO? To my knowledge itīs only available for 3 months now images/icons/grin.gif <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">yeah, isnt it increadible? how he did it all on paper ??!!
must have had a virtual orchestra in his head i suppose!

02-16-2004, 02:54 PM

Fantastic job! This piece really sounds great.

-- Martin

02-17-2004, 12:00 AM
It\'s always a matter of taste but this is the most convincing demo I heard from GPO. The overall rendering approached the real thing. Not in the matter of getting fool or not but instead in the emotional feeling created from a good use of samples.

Last week I transferred multiple demo (VSL, QLSO, GPO etc...) on a CD and listened to them on a CD player. Surprisingly GPO demos appeared more lively on CD when compared against the media player listening.

May I add a suggestion to demo makers. Spend some time to clearly identify your work in the summary folder of the mp3 file. Once in a while when I refresh my ears with demos my first reaction is always \"That unknown guy is unbelievable ! All these demos from a sole person !!!! \"

And yes Jamie you are maso, It helps a lot for making such a nice demo images/icons/wink.gif


02-17-2004, 12:31 AM
Excellent demo but how did this Strandinski guy compose the piece without GPO? To my knowledge itīs only available for 3 months now images/icons/grin.gif

02-17-2004, 12:33 AM
Originally posted by Raindog:
Excellent demo but how did this Strandinski guy compose the piece without GPO? To my knowledge itīs only available for 3 months now images/icons/grin.gif <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Absolutely amazing though a bit frustrating. I always thought itīs the equipment when I failed to produce something extraordinary......

02-17-2004, 07:08 PM
Nice job! I just saved the piece in my GPO demos folder!!

Alan Russell
02-17-2004, 07:14 PM

I do know this masterwork quite well and I have to congratiluate you on your efforts.
My only qualm is the opening tempo, the pulse is a bit too fast.

Anyway, it\'s eveident that you have invested your heart and soul in creating this virtually and I commend you for your patience.

Alan Russell

02-17-2004, 08:02 PM
Please add my praise to the list. A bassoonist friend also suggested letting the
opening \"breathe\" a bit more, but that\'s 0.02 on the scale of 10.
A master performance...
As a non-keyboardist, I would LOVE to see the MIDI file--I posted a thread about MIDI programming elsewhere, and a file the quality of yours would certainly contain the answers to many of the questions I have.

Again..a tip of the hat to you for this!!


Karl Garrett
02-17-2004, 09:01 PM
Skysaw, I was thinking of trying my hand at this work. I’m glad I didn’t now. This is superb.
Thanks for posting it.

02-17-2004, 10:25 PM
It\'s definitely much faster than any of my recordings, but it still sounds great.

The trills don\'t work...but, hey...it\'s not VSL.
It\'s $250.

02-18-2004, 10:26 PM
\"...The trills don\'t work...but, hey...it\'s not VSL.
It\'s $250...\"

I disagree, but then I probably would agree if I had spent $3500.00 on a Orchestral Lbrary!

02-20-2004, 10:39 PM
Pretty cool!The intro to this piece is truly a class of music unto itself. Takes no small effort to try and recreate it. I would like more rubato on the bassoon solo.