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J. Whaley
10-02-2002, 02:43 AM
I really need a quicker attack on my long samples. Switching to the staccato and some of the short bows don\'t always do what I need because the timbre changes so much. I\'ve got the GPC 1 all the way to 0 and still can\'t get my strings to attack fast enough, any suggestions? There is just a slight fade in that takes enough time that I can\'t get my passage out. For example, dotted quarter note followed by 1/8 followed by half. I just need a quick half bow but I can\'t find anyway to get this. It goes by quick enough that I don\'t mind the long bow patch, it\'s just I can\'t get the attack out. Actually changing patches just doesn\'t sound right. Please help me!!

Beckers
10-02-2002, 04:27 AM
Try using the masking samples, changing their attack to suit

KingIdiot
10-02-2002, 10:42 AM
have you tried layering the short bows on top of the long bows?

Andy Brick
10-02-2002, 12:26 PM
Ive had the same problem all over this piece I am working on now. I tried increating the GPC for masking samples and didnt notice enough of a difference. Layering gave me a similar problem with timbre. My solution was to push the longbows about 60 units earlier than the beat on which they are heard. Its not great but it worked well enough to pass in a mix.

It would be nice to see a fast attack SusVibEXPLEG. Anyone know if such a thing could be made via an .art file?

-andy
www.andybrick.com (\"http://www.andybrick.com\")

J. Whaley
10-02-2002, 01:10 PM
Sounds like you and I are in the same boat Andy.. I\'ve tried all that stuff and it just won\'t sound right. Quit frusterating images/icons/frown.gif Oh well, I know Gary\'s updating more and more all the time so I\'m sure it will show up one day!!! (ain\'t that right Gar...)

J-

J. Whaley
10-02-2002, 01:12 PM
Why do the samples differ so much anyway between stacc. and leg et al. I\'ve been very frusterated with some things where I wanted to switch articulations but the timbre is so different I just can\'t make it work... any ideas how to fix this via ART files or anything???

Beckers
10-02-2002, 06:39 PM
It\'s probably worth persisting with manipulating the masking samples until you get the attack you want: they have the same timbre as SusV; they have the natural attack portion cut off and in their bare state sound instantly. The attack you hear is the fade-in produced by the Editor. Putting GPC 5 down to 0 will only reduce the attack to that set on the amp. envelope -EG1 tab- (setting this too short won\'t be pretty). -Apart from this I find that with many of the CCs there is a response from GS of >0 with a CC message of 0, and it may be necessary to disengage the attack from GPC 5, -under EG mod.

If you want more control over the masking samples it is easy to harvest them from the Leg instruments by copying the regions and placing them (in the correct key positions) in a new instrument. You can then play them on a seperate sequencer track and layer with SusV/ alter volume/ shift etc. as necessary. They are only 0.5 secs. They come in all dynamics and you can keep a cross-faded Exp version.

Beckers
10-02-2002, 06:47 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by J. Whaley:
[QB]Why do the samples differ so much anyway between stacc. and leg et al. I\'ve been very frusterated with some things where I wanted to switch articulations but the timbre is so different I just can\'t make it work... any ideas how to fix this via ART files or anything???[/QB

This gets me too. I EQ them separately to match the long bows. I\'ve tried using the GSEdit filters, but they are difficult to use for predictable, consistent results. I\'ve also ended up wave-editing a lot of the samples to change the timbres.

Garritan
10-02-2002, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by J. Whaley:
Oh well, I know Gary\'s updating more and more all the time so I\'m sure it will show up one day!!! (ain\'t that right Gar...)

J-<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">That\'s right J.Whaley. But let\'s see if we can get to the bottom of this and find a more immediate solution.

Gary Garritan

J. Whaley
10-02-2002, 08:13 PM
And There you have it folks, the attitude that makes Gary so great... we\'ll fix it in the future, but until then we\'re still gonna make it work! I love it!

I\'ll try to work with the Masking Samples. I\'m not real well versed in the editor and tend to mess files up more then actually make them any better... but I\'m afraid it\'s time to face my fears and learn... that\'s the only way to make it all work right! Oh, why can\'t I just hold my music in front of the computer and it does all the work for me?

Mel Tron
10-02-2002, 09:12 PM
Here’s a tweak to speed up these players and take ‘em off the Valium.Especially useful for 8th and 16th note phrases.

Just make sure to use the Sustain Pedal with Maestro Tools. (as always)

CELLOS SUS V LEG:

EG1/LFO1 Tab
Set Attack to 0.03
Decay to .005
Release to 0.2
Then apply EG to 1) Entire Region and 2) Similar Regions

Mix Layer: Sample Start Offset to 2000.

Apply Mix/Layer Save and Exit. Of course, you can apply this to other patches as well. Listen to the changes before saving.

Note: This Patch sounds best WITHIN a musical context allowing for fast movement w/o sounding late. It might not sound good on its own soloed however.

Beckers
10-03-2002, 03:28 AM
Great. I didn\'t know about the sample offset thing!

I\'ve just been been messing with the masks (what\'s that you say, -sleep? -I know, isn\'t that where you fall over when you step on a banana skin?) To give them a natural attack rather than the synthy volume envelope fade-in I tried feathering in the attack portion of the staccato in the Editor. This works: I layered the staccato with the masks, setting the staccato decay to 0.13, and the mask attack to 0.12, balanced using the attenuation blue balls (stac minus masks = approx -15) and out comes something sounding suspiciously close to fast attack with SusV timbre, f and mp velocity splits, that will layer seamlesly with Long Susv, that I will put to good use. (This leaves me with an .art file -if anyone is interested?)

If I had used King\'s superfast marcatos, the attack could have been even faster..

J. Whaley
10-03-2002, 09:52 AM
Becker, do you have the ART file where we can download it?

Andy Brick
10-03-2002, 03:24 PM
Yes please Becker, I would be forever grateful for an .art file of that instrument! If you have it and feel so inclined, my email is

andybrick@aol.com

Thanks so much!

dwdonehoo
10-03-2002, 03:38 PM
Beckers: \"This leaves me with an .art file -if anyone is interested?\"

Oh hell yes! Please make it available someone.
And thanks!

Beckers
10-03-2002, 03:51 PM
Andy Brick, happy to email. Hope to sort it later tonight when I\'ve finished here.

I can\'t post it anywhere myself. Maybe Gary might briefly post it?? (Perhaps he would consider starting a library on his site of user designed art files)

Please note: you need to merge 1st violin long bows with 2nd violin short bows and then load the art file. You can then do a \"limited save\", omitting unreferenced samples, which will empty all the unused waves from the folders in the wave pool, save as .., which should leave you with a nice small new .gig.

J.Whaley, I might as well also send you the fuller sounding SusV Exp from that other thread, in the same file. Come to think of it perhaps I ought to do crossfaded Exp masks to match SusV Exp. -I haven\'t fully tested the thing myself yet

Please let me know of glitches, likes + dislikes. Further tweaks may be required

J. Whaley
10-04-2002, 12:02 AM
Sounds great Becker. jeremy@w3productions.net

I\'d be happy to post the Art file once you get it to a point you want to distribute it to our small group of people images/icons/smile.gif
J-

Beckers
10-04-2002, 03:14 AM
OK by me.

I hope you got that email: I briefly forgot the computer I sent it from is not on broadband and I disconnected too soon.

I haven\'t done the Exp version yet. I have yet to figure out how to have layers in two dimensions. It may not be possible.

RickD
10-05-2002, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by Andy Brick:
Yes please Becker, I would be forever grateful for an .art file of that instrument! If you have it and feel so inclined, my email is

andybrick@aol.com

Thanks so much!<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Me too!! images/icons/smile.gif

Rick

Beckers
10-06-2002, 02:45 AM
Originally posted by RickD:

Me too!!

<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Do you want me too email this to you

Rilla
10-08-2002, 12:51 PM
Dear Becker-if you are e-mailing, I\'d appreciate a copy as well-I\'m totally new to the entire subject-I\'ve had Gary\'s strings about a month-and had never even used giga before-so any and help is greatly appreciated! Hynesmus@bellsouth.net

Beckers
10-08-2002, 05:45 PM
Sure thing, Rilla. Please note, apart from briefly testing -which was OK, I haven\'t got to using it myself yet (I\'ve been busy sampling), and it may need tweaks to sound right.

(just covering myself in case it\'s sh!t.)

JimAbbott
11-09-2002, 07:17 PM
beckers, did any ever post the more attack .ART file, I\'m also new here and was going over the posts looking for a soloution to this very problem. if I can\'t download it would you e-mail it to me. Thanks ever so much
Jim abbott

Beckers
11-11-2002, 01:17 PM
Hi Jim, I don\'t think it\'s posted anywhere, but you\'re welcome to try it if you let me have an address to email it to.